Author
|
Topic: Mother 3 (Read 5 times)
|
Suzaku
Guest
|
 |
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2008, 09:50:42 pm » |
|
You haven't addressed why it was 0-dayed(Again, for lack of a better term). It was done because there was no chance it was coming out in English in any country, or even being released in any other country other than Japan.
Neither did Katamari Damacy. Until it did get released in other countries. Heck, neither did Magical Starsign. Or the GBA Fire Emblem games. Or Fire Pro Wrestling A. All of which DID get released elsewhere. That's the thing. There is NO WAY to know before, or immediately upon, a game's release if it will be released outside of Japan. Sometimes weird things happen, no matter how illogical. We know now that that it's pretty danged unlikely. I'd say a project started now would probably be fair game. 0-day translation projects are never a good thing. There is no way of knowing, short of an announcement by the developer and/or publisher, whether a game will get translated and released elsewhere. Regardless of your opinion of what constitutes an acceptable amount of wait time, zero days (or less!) is never that acceptable amount. Take a look at all those links. Notice a pattern? They were all released in the US within a year, and news came out before hand of their release in the US. Everyone who has or is currently working on the Mother 3 translation said they'd kill the translation if news of a US release came out. None has happened. I don't think they should be penalized because they jumped the gun by one day. Plus, you forget the precedent that had been set. Mother 1+2 had come out before and had gotten rejected. for US release. That alone increased the chance of Mother 3 not being released in the US. Now, that it's been proven to not be coming out, it should be allowed in this one instance, especially when you consider how many people here have been waiting on this game for over a decade! And none of them were announced before the Japanese release--you know, when this one was started. Again, you're completely missing the point. 0-day projects are not allowed here. Period. No exceptions. It doesn't matter how many people want it, or what we know its chances are now. If we start playing favorites like this, things fall apart. It's not like we're erasing the patch from the web. It just won't be here. You're trying to use hindsight to justify this. It has no place in this discussion. |
|
|
|
|
I.S.T.
Guest
|
|
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2008, 10:17:24 pm » |
|
I was unable to find any data on the second FE game, FPWA and Magical Starsign indicating if they had any US release date set before their japanese release date or not. However, I did find that they were at least rumored to be coming out... the first FE game and Katamari Damacy didn't have dates set, though. I'll concede that.
However, my points are:
A. Hindsight changes things in this case. It prove them right.
B. Frankly, it's hypocracy to ban this. Every single translation has its' roots in piracy. Every. Single. one.
C. If this one is banned, then all games that got 0-day releases should never be allowed to have any sort of entry on this site whatsoever. They are all descended from piracy in an even more direct manner than most translations/hacks are.
D. You skip over the precedent that Mother 1+2 set. FE had had interest in it generated due to SSBM, so it doesn't count.
E. It's a slap in the face of all of the people who have been in the romhacking community for years, especially Tomato and Gideon.
And how would things fall apart? That makes no sense. There will most likely never be a Mother 3 again, so to speak, or a game with as much history in the romhacking community as Mother 3. That's the biggest reason for an exception.
Not allowing it is so insanely illogical it's not funny, and clearly shows the hypocracy of the people running the site.
|
|
|
|
|
Ryusui
Guest
|
|
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2008, 11:16:21 pm » |
|
Just so you know, it's "hypocrisy". ^_^;
Yes, I agree that zero-day leaks cast a pall upon the emulation and romhacking communities, but publicly condemning the Mother 3 project because it began with one - and refusing to feature it on RHDN is a condemnation - is like condemning the Founding Fathers for signing the Declaration of Independence because it was high treason. This isn't some kid downloading Pokemon Pearl because he can't wait five months for the U.S. version and managing to pester and kludge his way into getting a half-assed translation done three days before the official ship date: this is some high-quality, painstaking work, done under the correct then as now assumption that Nintendo won't release Mother 3 in English themselves. If that assumption changes, everyone is happy and the project dies.
The message being sent here is not "We do not condone or tolerate zero-day releases": it's "No matter how good or professional-looking your work is, we can strike it down on an irrelevant technicality".
|
|
|
|
|
I.S.T.
Guest
|
|
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2008, 11:21:08 pm » |
|
Just so you know, it's "hypocrisy". ^_^;
Yes, I agree that zero-day leaks cast a pall upon the emulation and romhacking communities, but publicly condemning the Mother 3 project because it began with one - and refusing to feature it on RHDN is a condemnation - is like condemning the Founding Fathers for signing the Declaration of Independence because it was high treason. This isn't some kid downloading Pokemon Pearl because he can't wait five months for the U.S. version and managing to pester and kludge his way into getting a half-assed translation done three days before the official ship date: this is some high-quality, painstaking work, done under the correct then as now assumption that Nintendo won't release Mother 3 in English themselves. If that assumption changes, everyone is happy and the project dies.
The message being sent here is not "We do not condone or tolerate zero-day releases": it's "No matter how good or professional-looking your work is, we can strike it down on an irrelevant technicality".
And as usual, someone else sums up my argument in a far more succinct, eloquent and intelligent manner. :thumbsup: to Ryusui. |
|
|
|
|
tc
Guest
|
|
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2008, 11:22:40 pm » |
|
My point was that the GBA is dead. No more commercial Nintendo-approved games will EVER again be released for it. None, period. Regardless of circumstances.
Maybe a decade from now they'll wise up and finally put some of their older titles in compilations or something like the Virtual Console, but even that doesn't return its original platform from the grave.
Besides... How do we know there aren't already projects on here started before store date from a leaked ROM? It isn't as if every hacker announces a translation on the same day they started work, or waits for confirmation of US release.
|
|
|
|
|
Ryusui
Guest
|
|
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2008, 11:38:48 pm » |
|
It's not unthinkable that we'll see Mother 3 in the U.S.. There were rumors that a Mother Trilogy for DS was planned; nothing's come of it yet, but that doesn't mean nothing ever will.
And if Nintendo does bring us Mother 3 someday in the future, when WiiThrii's Virtual Console is running GBA games alongside Saturn and Dreamcast, then the fan translation patch will simply grow redundant and forgotten, like the ones for Final Fantasy II, III and V.
(Though someone every now and then will bring it up and point to it as a symbol of what romhackers can accomplish. Didn't FFV have the first-ever proportional font hack?)
And for the record, I like "Clule" better than "Krile" or "Cara".
|
|
|
|
|
Piotyr
Guest
|
|
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2008, 11:49:07 pm » |
|
technicality is the perfect word for this.
So tell me. If I started a translation for mother 3 RIGHT NOW and finished it would my patch be banned as well? Are you telling me that we will never allow a mother 3 patch EVER?
|
|
|
|
|
Draken
Guest
|
|
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2008, 11:58:36 pm » |
|
*sigh*
NC clearly stated that the reason it was "banned" was because the fan translation started before the game was released in Japan. If you started a translation right now, it would be "accepted" by the site.
Oh teh drama!
|
|
|
|
|
InVerse
Guest
|
|
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2008, 12:31:23 am » |
|
So what exactly is an acceptable date? Can one start a translation on release day and have it accepted? Must one wait a full 24 hours before beginning work on a translation? A week? A year?
Or is the problem that the ROM was leaked two days before the street date? If that's the case, I could understand it, had they possessed some magical device that translated the game and enabled them to release the English version prior to the Japanese game. However, it's been nearly two years since the game was released and a patch still isn't available.
Of course, looking at it from the other point of view, one might cite the case of the teenager who was arrested for translating Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows into French three months prior to the official release date. The site on which the translation was originally posted was shut down by police. In light of that, it would probably be a wise idea to avoid covering translations for any system still commercially available. (And damn! 759 pages translated in less than a week.)
|
|
|
|
|
Numonohi_Boi
Guest
|
|
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2008, 12:52:21 am » |
|
maybe someone else should release it under another name so it wouldn't be tainted  I mean honestly, you guys call it a technicality and are perhaps a little upset, and I call it legalism, pure and simple, I thought a big part of the scene here was being able to follow the spirit of the law in that you aren't hurting the people making and selling the game without always following the letter of the law. that's the difference between legalism and adjustable reasoning I'd think. I have nothing against anyone here, but I must say I'm a little surprised to see this go down the way it is. We know the people who are working on this, and we know they don't work on 0-day warez, we know they aren't like that at all. We understand their intent. At this point I don't see the issue, and find it curious that we operate legalistically rather than with adjustable reasoning if nothing else then based on their reputation alone. They've said numerous times that if an English version ever came out they'd be happy and cease working on it. This is a lot more that some translations that are being done on a snes game parallel to the company releasing a remake on a newer system. Sure it isn't the exact same version of the game, but it is competitive, it is the same game, and yet we carry those and not this. It seems to break down logically, and may even come across as contradictory or hypocritical to some. At this point it doesn't matter to me what happens here as far as Mother 3 is concerned, but I do think that this situation has brought up interesting aspects of how this site works, and is confusing a lot of us. |
|
|
|
|
I.S.T.
Guest
|
|
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2008, 01:17:00 am » |
|
Or is the problem that the ROM was leaked two days before the street date? If that's the case, I could understand it, had they possessed some magical device that translated the game and enabled them to release the English version prior to the Japanese game. However, it's been nearly two years since the game was released and a patch still isn't available.
If that's the reason, then if RHDN going to ban this translation, they must ban all hacks/translations/whatever that are based off of a rom that was released before the game's release date. Several GBA games, perhaps maybe over 100(Simply because of how many games were released) got 0 day releases. At the same time, has Mother 3 been verified to be outright pirated via a stolen copy? What if a guy who dumps games bought a copy legally from a shop that broke the street date? Several games have been sold legally via a game shop before their release date(To name a recent example, Bioshock. People bought copies 3 days in advance from Gamestop.). How do we know that didn't happen in Mother 3's case? There's far too many variables here... |
|
|
|
|
Tomato
Guest
|
|
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2008, 01:25:39 am » |
|
To be honest, it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other, this is NC's site and I'll respect whatever he decides. But all this talk has made me curious though. My menu patch was made independently of anyone else's work, entirely by me, from scratch, sometime around September 2007 if I recall. Would that still be considered bad? Like I mentioned before, I'd rather not have it up anyway since I'm not very happy with it, but I'm just curious. Anyway, I'm seeing a lot of incorrect info -- the 0-day warez thing was started by someone who's been perm-banned at Starmen.Net for years for being one of the biggest trolls there. He wanted to be the first to release the ROM so he could be internet famous, but as if you're ever gonna beat those Hong Kong pirates at their own game  Anyway, immediately afterward, he and another banned troll and a programmer got together and started the project. The programmer left shortly after, and the two drama trolls were obviously not brought along during the merge. They weren't even hackers or translators anyway. Whether or not the project isn't allowed to be endorsed here, I do want to say that I've really been amazed at how informative the project blog's become in terms of ROM hacking and translating. I intended it to be mostly a "here's our progress" type of thing, but it's changed a lot from that. People are getting to follow things day by day almost, from our point of view, and I can't even count how many people have said, "Wow! I had no idea ROM hacking was this complicated!" and "Whoa, this is cool! I think I'll give it a try sometime!" So in my eyes at least, not only is it a project to get M3 translated, it's become a window through which people are learning more about ROM hacking and ROM translating and inspires people to get into hacking and programming, too. I've been amazed (depressed?) by how many people just assume that ROM translating is like fansubbing or fan manga translations or whatever, in which you're basically just slapping English text on top of stuff and calling it a day. I realize that doesn't change anything, but for RHDN, it'd be really cool if you maybe did something similar -- have a detailed translation/hacking blog for a decently high-profile game, and have it featured on the site here. I think that might speak loads more than articles and docs. It's pretty interesting stuff to outsiders, I never realized it. What if a guy who dumps games bought a copy legally from a shop that broke the street date? Several games have been sold legally via a game shop before their release date(To name a recent example, Bioshock. People bought copies 3 days in advance from Gamestop.). How do we know that didn't happen in Mother 3's case? Actually, I honestly think that's the case here, but there's no real way to tell. I think it came out 2 days beforehand, but since Japan's a day ahead of us, I think it was technically released 1 day early. I'm pretty people's PlayAsia preorders shipped a day before the official release date, too. Not that any of it really matters, though |
|
|
|
|
KaioShin
Guest
|
|
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2008, 03:35:39 am » |
|
Question for you staffers. Can you honestly say you wouldn't have done things the same way as they did, given their situation?
Yes. I never liked the Mother series  |
|
|
|
|
Numonohi_Boi
Guest
|
|
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2008, 03:39:32 am » |
|
nice KaioShin |
|
|
|
|
I.S.T.
Guest
|
|
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2008, 03:40:18 am » |
|
Question for you staffers. Can you honestly say you wouldn't have done things the same way as they did, given their situation?
Yes. I never liked the Mother series :laugh: |
|
|
|
|
|
