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Author Topic: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?  (Read 19 times)
deespence2929
Guest
« Reply #330 on: April 27, 2008, 06:48:17 pm »

He means that flame graphic in that blank rom is actually a enemy found in Donkey Kong.
frantik
Guest
« Reply #331 on: April 28, 2008, 02:16:56 am »

Quote
I think they tend to follow Hudson's sprites pretty exactly, which is unfortunate, because Hudson's sprites aren't really that good looking.

i agree they are fugly but it's not like the rest of the SMB1 graphics aint fugly lol.  i just took the existing graphics and converted them to nes as directly as possible.  we can go with modified graphics though i dont mind

rbudrick
Guest
« Reply #332 on: April 28, 2008, 08:23:10 am »

I too am in favor of doing the graphics as exactly as possible, only it seems SMBS had some color limitations.  It may be good to consider what colors the items would have been if they could have used SMB NES's pallette.

As far as adding something to the ending, I think it would be better to add to the title screen like all hackers, heh heh.  I dunno, just an accuracy thing.

-Rob
Karatorian
Guest
« Reply #333 on: April 28, 2008, 11:21:36 am »

So I went through the sprite data and figured out exactly what every tile was, how many tiles each sprite took up, what was really needed in each level type, etc. and found something out. Apparently, my earlier numbers where a little bit off. We've got enough room to fit all the graphics in without a hitch, even on the heavly occupied ground type levels.

I constructed the following chart to guide myself as I move forward with the sprite bank assignments. However, as I've looked into the matter, I keep having obnoxious math errors creep in, so I figured I'd share my results and let anyone who's interested proof them, in case I missed something. Am I missing any sprites? Are any of the level types missing sprites? Is my math wrong anywhere? (Note, I already reduced the Atom to two tiles simply by moving it up one pixel. Also, the Other type is both Underground and Water areas.)


Base 179 (77 free)

91  Mario
 9  Floaty Numbers
 2  Platform
 4  Coin
 2  Fireballs
 3  Explosions
 4  Blocks
 1  Blank

 4  Mushroom
 2  Fire Flower
 4  Starman

 4  [Honeybee]
 4  [Hammer]
 3  [Clock]
 4  [Wings]
 2  [Atom]

 5  Goomba
13  Koopa
 4  Parakoopa
10  Buzzy Beetle
 6  Piranha Plant

Ground 76 (1 free)

18  Hammer Bro
18  Latiku and Spiny
 6  Cheep Cheep
 4  Bullet Bill

 4  Castle Flag
 2  Flagpole Flag
 2  Vine
 4  Jump Spring

 4  [Side Stepper]
 6  [Fighter Fly]
 4  [Barrel]
 4  [Flaming Barrel]

Castle 38 (39 free)

18  Bowser
 5  Peach
 3  Toad
 2  Podobo

 2  [Falling Spike]
 4  [Barrel]
 4  [Flaming Barrel]

Other 18 (59 free)

 6  Cheep Cheep
 3  Blooper
 1  Bubble
 2  Mario Swim

 4  [Side Stepper]
 2  [Falling Spike]


As for the graphics, I'll be fine with whatever direction we decide to take them. While I've strived for accuracy in many parts of this project, I don't belive we have to have everything exactly as the PC88 version. Rather, I think the goal of this project is (or should be) to create SMBS as it would be on the NES. If the graphics could use a little tweaking to better match the rest of SMB's art (which may not be great, but it's not as bad as SMBS's), then I'm for it.

As for adding a custom ending screen, it's not true that all ROM hackers edit only the title screen. Larger projects often alter the credits sequence as well. Of course, SMB has no credits sequence, but I think adding one would be a good idea. I rather like how the current title screen only has the one subtle line at the bottom. Adding full credits to the title, even if it just said "Karatorian and Frantik" or some such would clutter it up. (I've seen many title screens that where destroyed by that sort of thing.)

Also I've been thinking, we could do a little research and credit the teams at Nintendo and Hudson. They are the giants on who's shoulders we stand.

Edit:

Doh! I just realized that one we get the wing power up implimented, we'll need the swim animation tiles in ground levels too. Damn, were're still one tile over. (I knew it was to good to be true.)
« Last Edit: April 28, 2008, 11:45:31 am by Karatorian »
strfr
Guest
« Reply #334 on: April 28, 2008, 06:55:50 pm »

Quote from: Karatorian on April 28, 2008, 11:21:36 am
While I've strived for accuracy in many parts of this project, I don't belive we have to have everything exactly as the PC88 version. Rather, I think the goal of this project is (or should be) to create SMBS as it would be on the NES. If the graphics could use a little tweaking to better match the rest of SMB's art (which may not be great, but it's not as bad as SMBS's), then I'm for it.
With what you said in mind (specifically what I made in bold), there are certain level designs in SMBS with puzzles that took advantage of the PC88's lack of scroll.  One in particular is a puzzle where if small, Mario needs to get a mushroom to enlarge and break a brick to escape.  Now with this goal in mind, I think the level designs may need to be considered for change to make them practical on the NES.
frantik
Guest
« Reply #335 on: April 28, 2008, 07:12:33 pm »

Quote from: strfr on April 28, 2008, 06:55:50 pm
One in particular is a puzzle where if small, Mario needs to get a mushroom to enlarge and break a brick to escape.  Now with this goal in mind, I think the level designs may need to be considered for change to make them practical on the NES.

if you're talking about the puzzle in world 2 with the hidden coin block.. that puzzle still works with the scroll Smiley  I tried to ensure the level designs retained the game play aspect as much as possible to the point accurate gameplay trumped accurate level design.  please let me know if there are any parts which could be changed to be more accurate to the game play

Karatorian, regarding sprites, if we just need 1 more i'd suggest perhaps using only one tile for the vine and or redesigning some of the new sprites.  I went and got the hudson bee from Adventure Island and it looks way better than the SMBS one lol..
strfr
Guest
« Reply #336 on: April 28, 2008, 08:55:35 pm »

Quote from: frantik on April 28, 2008, 07:12:33 pm
if you're talking about the puzzle in world 2 with the hidden coin block.. that puzzle still works with the scroll Smiley  I tried to ensure the level designs retained the game play aspect as much as possible to the point accurate gameplay trumped accurate level design.  please let me know if there are any parts which could be changed to be more accurate to the game play
Huh...I remembered something else that could get you stuck in that screen if you scrolled too much...I have a feeling that it was hitting the mushroom block when the screen scrolled way too far.  But I could be wrong.  Tongue
frantik
Guest
« Reply #337 on: April 28, 2008, 09:40:17 pm »

Quote from: strfr on April 28, 2008, 08:55:35 pm

Huh...I remembered something else that could get you stuck in that screen if you scrolled too much...I have a feeling that it was hitting the mushroom block when the screen scrolled way too far.  But I could be wrong.  Tongue

i thought i tested it and the mushroom would still bounce off the wall even if it was off screen but perhaps you can get the screen to scroll too far .. if anything it just makes it a tougher puzzle lol Wink [edit: i tested it and couldn't get the screen to scroll too far.. the mushroom is always possible to get (assuming you don't block it in with the coin block).  i guess though you're less likely to block it in cause the hidden coin is off the screen once you can hit the mushroom block

i updated some of the sprites including the hudson bee from adventure island, two versions of the modified atom and two versions of a modified p-wing.  i think the atom with the one dot in the center is better than the atom without the dot, but if we're in a bind for one tile it's a good candidate for timming imo.  The wing w/o the outline matches the rest of the game graphics better than the one with the outline, even though the outlined one is better overall

new smbs sprites


another option for gaining one more tile would be to use tile 0x27 as 0x07 cause they are very very similar.  You would just need to modify tile 0x05 to match 0x027 better.  I included the modified tile 0x05 in with the sprites.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2008, 10:30:47 pm by frantik »
Karatorian
Guest
« Reply #338 on: April 29, 2008, 01:49:16 pm »

I just found a mistake in my table, which explains why everything suddenly fit when it didn't before. The Blooper is missing from the ground enemies list. That's another three tiles. Arg, it's enough to make me pull my hair out.

Edit: I just realized that the blooper is actually four tiles. Things just keep getting worse. Five tiles, damn.

Ok, I think we can make it work.

I just noticed that the top of the Barrel enemy is symetrical, so it's actually only three tiles. I made a version of the Honeybee (the Adventure Island one) with a symetrical head that still looks pretty good. The Mario alteration suggested by frantik makes three, which only leaves two to go. The atom could be reduced to one, but the one with the highlight does look much better. It might be possible to make the left half of the wing symetrical, although, none of my attempts to do so have looked any good. I think I've found a way to reduce Lakitu by one tile.

What else can we do?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2008, 02:46:30 pm by Karatorian »
BRPXQZME
Guest
« Reply #339 on: April 29, 2008, 02:02:57 pm »

“What? Whatta you doin’ there? You belong in the water! There’s no water here!”
frantik
Guest
« Reply #340 on: April 29, 2008, 03:21:33 pm »

we could ditch one of the vine tiles

and mario's tiles could probably be reduced smore as well let me look
Karatorian
Guest
« Reply #341 on: April 29, 2008, 04:10:22 pm »

We only need one more. I thought about ditching one vine tile, but I fear that exactly symetrical vines would look bad. As the graphics guy, I'll let you decide what we can most afford to lose.

I've added CHR-ROM switching to my mapper codebase and have built the ROM with 16k of CHR-ROM. Everything seems to be working so far.

I've started mapping out where I'll insert the new tiles. Once we figure out where we're pulling the one tile from, I can get the modified sprite ROM banks done and start hacking the graphics tables as needed.
rbudrick
Guest
« Reply #342 on: April 29, 2008, 04:19:36 pm »

Are there any letters in the tile set for the alphabet that are unused in the game?

-Rob
Karatorian
Guest
« Reply #343 on: April 29, 2008, 05:35:02 pm »

Rob, I don't know if any of the letters are unused, but it doesn't matter, because they're in tile ROM, not sprite ROM.

I've just discovered the strangest thing. The sprite tile I thought was unused, 0xFF, is used for something. But it's really weird. If you blank out that tile, the game locks up on boot while inside the sprite zero collision detection routine. If you modify the tile, the bottom of the status area at the top of the screen scrolls with the level as you move. It's really strange.

I looked in NESTech to see if I could figure out what exactly was going on, but it didn't shed any light on the issue. It must be some sort of Voodoo in part of the code I haven't looked at.

Anyway, this means we need to free up two tiles. I swear, if I find any more, I'll cry.
frantik
Guest
« Reply #344 on: April 29, 2008, 05:48:19 pm »

tile 0xff is used for scrolling..  it's the bottom half of the coin icon in the status bar.

tiles 0x70 and 0x71 are just mirror images of each other, so goomba = 4 tiles now Smiley

and EB and EE are identical..
« Last Edit: April 29, 2008, 05:59:08 pm by frantik »
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