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Topic: 21fx is here. (Read 2 times)
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Kitsune Sniper
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« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2009, 11:09:51 pm » |
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A bunch is more than 5. Even some of those random handhelds that are coming into the market have hundreds upon hundreds of people buying them. That's what I'm talking about. Sure, there's a group of people interested in SNES stuff. But interested enough to buy a $50 add-on? People are buying $150-$250 flashcarts for dead systems because of homebrew gaming. You say there's not a market for this? I think Byuu needs to patent this before making a hardware implementation, or he's going to get screwed over. |
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smkd
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« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2009, 11:58:37 pm » |
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Just loading mp3 tracks is one thing. Getting videos going, taking advantage of the giant amount of space available, that kind of thing, will take a long time. Of course, I'm impressed that it was done that quickly. So this does show that there are people out there interested enough to get this going, so I have some more hope. The video code would be alot simpler than in the Lunar ROM since there's no bankswitching, no compression, just straight streaming from the device. I already have a decent base to work from, just a matter of stripping out the S-DD1 stuff. I know byuu is doing something for Der Langrisser, I will have a crack at putting in the FMV for CT (replacing the intro that you see if you idle on the title screen for a bit). I already have a nice bank of free space (though it's 8KB and I only need a few hundred bytes), I'll post the source and all that when I'm done. I haven't hacked CT anywhere near as much as I have SMW, so I'll have to learn a decent bit about the game in the process. No problem though. |
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creaothceann
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« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2009, 03:36:55 am » |
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The one really great game I saw (the four-player fighting game that d4s made, I believe)
more like 8 |
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Rolen47
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« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2009, 03:48:18 am » |
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A bunch is more than 5. Even some of those random handhelds that are coming into the market have hundreds upon hundreds of people buying them. That's what I'm talking about. Sure, there's a group of people interested in SNES stuff. But interested enough to buy a $50 add-on? People are buying $150-$250 flashcarts for dead systems because of homebrew gaming. You say there's not a market for this? I think Byuu needs to patent this before making a hardware implementation, or he's going to get screwed over. Isn't obtaining a patent ridiculously expensive? I've heard it can easily cost $5,000 to obtain a patent on something as simple as a paperclip, while getting a patent on something as complex as electronics can cost as much as $15,000 in fees. I highly doubt there would be enough sales to break even. There just isn't a lot of demand for a device like this. |
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« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 03:53:43 am by Rolen47 »
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Nightcrawler
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« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2009, 09:16:26 am » |
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A patent?  Besides cost, it's unlikely ONE person will ever manufacture more than 20 of these (and that's assuming this actually ever got past prototypes) let alone competing companies wanting it... It's a made up device with no software for a close to 20 year old platform. It's not even comparable to a flash cart because a flash cart has far more value. We all know what most people buy them for and it's not for these. There's not any worthwhile software even hypothetically speaking for a market. Even if what's talked about all occurs (and we all know the rate of talked about and dropped to completed projects in our community), what do we have? We have an expensive solution to Chrono Trigger with some FMVs like the Playstation version with less lag and some mp3s. There's a hardware market of less than 15 people for that probably. There's an expensive solution for Der Langrisser with some added videos and mp3s. Hardware market of 10 perhaps? Oh, a few other games with their CD soundtracks with sound effects. Since this is emulated freely anyway, how many are honestly actually going to purchase a real hardware unit? Furthermore, to get those few perks you need to buy an $XX dollar device, an $XX 4GB medium (whatever the device eventually uses) and then have to have the know how to piece together your patched game and new content (about 10% of us. This site shows us most barely can master standard patching). How many of us actually buy an SNES flash cart let alone elaborate devices like this? The numbers are so low. There's probably less than 20 people on this site right now that own an SNES flash cart. I don't like raining on the parade, but I needed to inject a dose of reality into the equation here. This would make the 3DO look like a huge success.  One person could probably manually make enough of these to cover everyone who at the end of the day would pay the money for a hardware version. The chances of it getting past the prototype stage is even very slim. If this has any value at all, it will be in emulation via software. And even then, we need more then two or three fully hacked titles. So far we only have tech demos. I don't think we'll see many full projects with this. The hardware market will be nearly non existent. |
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Kitsune Sniper
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« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2009, 11:18:08 am » |
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A patent? Besides cost, it's unlikely ONE person will ever manufacture more than 20 of these (and that's assuming this actually ever got past prototypes) let alone competing companies wanting it... It's a made up device with no software for a close to 20 year old platform. It's not even comparable to a flash cart because a flash cart has far more value. We all know what most people buy them for and it's not for these. There's not any worthwhile software even hypothetically speaking for a market. Even if what's talked about all occurs (and we all know the rate of talked about and dropped to completed projects in our community), what do we have? We have an expensive solution to Chrono Trigger with some FMVs like the Playstation version with less lag and some mp3s. There's a hardware market of less than 15 people for that probably. There's an expensive solution for Der Langrisser with some added videos and mp3s. Hardware market of 10 perhaps? Oh, a few other games with their CD soundtracks with sound effects. Since this is emulated freely anyway, how many are honestly actually going to purchase a real hardware unit? Furthermore, to get those few perks you need to buy an $XX dollar device, an $XX 4GB medium (whatever the device eventually uses) and then have to have the know how to piece together your patched game and new content (about 10% of us. This site shows us most barely can master standard patching). How many of us actually buy an SNES flash cart let alone elaborate devices like this? The numbers are so low. There's probably less than 20 people on this site right now that own an SNES flash cart. I don't like raining on the parade, but I needed to inject a dose of reality into the equation here. This would make the 3DO look like a huge success. One person could probably manually make enough of these to cover everyone who at the end of the day would pay the money for a hardware version. The chances of it getting past the prototype stage is even very slim. If this has any value at all, it will be in emulation via software. And even then, we need more then two or three fully hacked titles. So far we only have tech demos. I don't think we'll see many full projects with this. The hardware market will be nearly non existent. People have finally started to make flash carts for console systems that use memory cards like CompactFlash and MicroSD. Maybe it won't get to a huge manufacturing level but trust me, someone out there will start to make these on demand eventually. It may cost a lot, but it'll happen. |
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DarknessSavior
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« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2009, 11:20:20 am » |
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Really? I want my microSD SNES flash cart then. Where is it? =P People are buying $150-$250 flashcarts for dead systems because of homebrew gaming.
Wrong. People are buying flashcarts to play hacks and translations. Not homebrew games. Ask around here with the people who have them: are they playing any homebrew games? >_> ~DS |
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Nightcrawler
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« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2009, 11:47:24 am » |
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Exactly. Hence my link to Zophar's PD ROMs in my example of what they are not used for! :laugh:
This device is nothing like a flash cart and would not be bought or manufactured for any of the same reasons or purposes.
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smkd
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« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2009, 12:09:19 pm » |
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Even if the hardware rendition doesn't get past prototyping for whatever reason it's not a total loss. And even if no one ends up caring then I don't mind personally, it's still fun to screw around with. CT video coming along nicely for what it's worth.
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Kitsune Sniper
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« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2009, 05:08:59 pm » |
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Really? I want my microSD SNES flash cart then. Where is it? =P
Compact Flash, bitch! Bah. Whatever, I still stand by my opinion. It'll turn up eventually. |
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tomaitheous
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« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2009, 07:57:28 pm » |
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In my opinion, this is what I see: even if a handful of fully functional hardware carts are made and sold, it validates the emulation side. It's no longer "fantasy" emulation. And, there was always gamers out there that prefer using the real system over any emulator. Though, I'm not really sure how SNES gamers fit into this category (but Genesis and TG16 fans really fit into this category).
I personally think it's a great idea. There are valid points as this being competitive to what the SNES CD would have provided (minus an extra processor or such). But I do agree, given the homebrew scene for SNES compared to other systems, this'll probably end up mostly(completely?) for hacks.
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Numonohi_Boi
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« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2009, 02:50:26 am » |
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you guys say that people buy flash carts for rom hacks and translations but this devise that byuu is talking about is perfect for this. it expands what you can do with rom hacks, and has the potential to allow you to play your hacks and translations softpatched on your actual cartridges, or just play the whole thing off of the cartridge itself, it's like a SUPER flash cart. As for it being for hacks instead of homebrew? so what? it's good for both right? I wonder if anyone has any of the data on what Secret of Mana was originally going to be like on the SNES CD. Was it just going to have CD audio? more level data? perhaps a less compressed to hell title screen? (does anyone know where to find a better quality copy of that title screen art?) Even if the hardware rendition doesn't get past prototyping for whatever reason it's not a total loss. And even if no one ends up caring then I don't mind personally, it's still fun to screw around with. CT video coming along nicely for what it's worth.
Oh I'm buying one, tell me the paypal account and the amount and you'll have it with 24 hours. |
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smkd
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« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2009, 10:16:41 am » |
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if I can go slightly offtopic here's my current CT demonstration. Tukoyomi was nice enough to mirror it. http://88.191.30.201/~tukuyomi/stuff/bsnes/21fx/It's large, but I wanted to cut out the conversion bits until the tool which combines all of this is released. If you want to check it out: apply the UPS to a USA ROM, extract the included .7z files into the same directory as the ROM and play it in the latest bsnes. Let it sit at the title screen for a bit or press whatever button takes you into the little movie scene. |
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justin3009
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« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2009, 10:58:42 am » |
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Holy shit, and it works perfectly O_O. This is pretty interesting.
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