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Author Topic: 21fx is here.  (Read 2 times)
KaioShin
Guest
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2009, 04:36:10 pm »

CD Audio: Awesome

Ugly first-gen FMVs in tiny resolutions: Please don't Undecided\

But really, I don't quite see the point myself. Ok so wants to create real hardware for this. How many people would pay a hundred bucks (small runs of custom hardware like this aren't cheap) for something that will work with 5 games?

Although I would have one possibly interesting project with this myself. Make one of the SNES Super Robot Wars games (haven't played most of them yet so I don't know which would be best suited) stream the real anime opening themes during battles from CD. Mizuki Ichiro singing "BREASTO FIAAA" every battle would be awesome.
Moulinoski
Guest
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2009, 05:07:09 pm »

Quote from: KaioShin on December 09, 2009, 04:36:10 pm
Mizuki Ichiro singing "BREASTO FIAAA" every battle would be awesome.

Or annoying... :/ It's cool for a while and then...!!
Talbain
Guest
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2009, 09:39:52 pm »

I think it depends on what people might do.  CD quality audio is out there for a lot of games, just a project that adds the audio back into the games would be really interesting.  Games like Lufia 1 & 2, Chrono Trigger, etc.  You could even use remixed tracks.  You could add in videos for games like Der Langrisser or Emerald Dragon.  Hell, given that the entire project is open source, you could probably make most emulators support it with some effort.  The fact that it would work on real hardware is just icing on the cake.
Kitsune Sniper
Guest
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2009, 03:03:41 am »

Well, I don't care what the haters think, I think it's fuckawesome. See the lot of you are only thinking about audio and video.

Me? I'm thinking of the possibilities that having such a large amount of data available can bring...
smkd
Guest
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2009, 04:45:39 am »

Quote from: Kitsune Sniper on December 10, 2009, 03:03:41 am
See the lot of you are only thinking about audio and video.  Me? I'm thinking of the possibilities that having such a large amount of data available can bring...

I'm pretty sure most people are fully aware that it's capable of more than audio/video, it's just that those 2 were the things you'd never see out of a commercial game due to ROM constraints.  Anything that isn't crippled by not having random access works for this.  Someting simple like extending the amount of frames a player sprite has without fear of ROM constraint would work seamlessly.  Or pretty much anything that won't fit in your ROM can be thrown into your 21fx.bin and pulled out whenever required.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 04:51:37 am by smkd »
Numonohi_Boi
Guest
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2009, 04:55:01 am »

Quote from: KaioShin on December 09, 2009, 04:36:10 pm

Ugly first-gen FMVs in tiny resolutions: Please don't Undecided\

low res, yes, terrible quality? not necessarily, with the better compression technology we have and also the endless space we have to work with (4 gigs is a lot of snes res video) it could look a lot better than FMVs from back in that day.

I think the real benefits are in people making romhacks, and if enough people use features in their romhacks then more people would be willing to buy it.

That's really not the only thing though, if 20 people bought the hardware it would be considered "real hardware" instead of vaporware as Nightcrawler suggested. Sure it's not licensed, but who really cares? it's a good idea.

Honestly something that opens up possibilities while still being based on the SNES architecture is a huge win for Romhackers IMO. Sure it may not be something that new, byuu himself says it's basically the concept of the S-DD1 chip and the super gameboy put together. I think the audio alone is worth it, it gives us what the snes cd would have been plus makes it more competative with the Sega CD, PC-FX, and early 2D PSOne games.
KaioShin
Guest
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2009, 05:36:20 am »

The only thing IMO that would seriously improve the SNES hardware would unfortunately most definitely kill real hardware and backwards compatibility: Give the SNES more VRAM. To highlight were the problem is I'll just say 8x8 menu VWFs Tongue

smkd
Guest
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2009, 06:01:57 am »

Quote from: KaioShin on December 10, 2009, 05:36:20 am
The only thing IMO that would seriously improve the SNES hardware would unfortunately most definitely kill real hardware and backwards compatibility: Give the SNES more VRAM. To highlight were the problem is I'll just say 8x8 menu VWFs Tongue

haha.  A fantasy emulator can bring it up to the standards of spoiled Neo Geo games.  512Mbits of character memory with no bank switching required =).

Quote
low res, yes, terrible quality? not necessarily, with the better compression technology we have and also the endless space we have to work with (4 gigs is a lot of snes res video) it could look a lot better than FMVs from back in that day.

This was a concern with the Lunar video because it's stored lossless in memory so video sources with artefacts were annoying to deal with.

For reference though, it took over 46MB to store a single minute of video for my example ROM.  Make it 56MB if it's combined with redbook audio =).  The 4GB is a necessity for a decent amount of audio/video.  Remember there is no video compression here.
Kitsune Sniper
Guest
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2009, 11:08:51 am »

Quote from: smkd on December 10, 2009, 06:01:57 am
For reference though, it took over 46MB to store a single minute of video for my example ROM.  Make it 56MB if it's combined with redbook audio =).  The 4GB is a necessity for a decent amount of audio/video.  Remember there is no video compression here.
Why redbook audio? A suitably compressed (not low quality) audio stream would do just fine.

And with all the vram limitations you'd think byuu would try to get around it somehow.
smkd
Guest
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2009, 12:10:36 pm »

Compressed anything on this would be cool, but the added complexity/cost will likely get in the way.  "Simplicity is king" is the phrase being thrown around I think.  4GB is still a huge amount of video/audio for a SNES romhack.  If a hack were to add occasional FMV scenes and a full redbook soundtrack it would easily fit no problem.  I don't think anyone knows what the final hardware version is going to look like at this point.

VRAM capacity is set in stone, although the limits with video streaming are not affected by capacity but available time to actually upload graphics.  You'd have to make major mods to the PPU to increase effective VRAM capacity.  Something like MMC5 did for the NES.
Neil
Guest
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2009, 05:41:09 pm »

two things.

1: Imagine a beowulf cluster of those!

2: I would so buy that if it were manufactured.
DarknessSavior
Guest
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2009, 09:51:09 pm »

I think this is a great idea. However, it's far too late. I don't see anyone jumping on board to manufacture a bunch of these, nor do I see a bunch of fans wanting to pay up the wazoo to buy them.

I also haven't seen many homebrew SNES games that are worth their salt. So I don't see many people throwing new stuff into their own games.

Perhaps enhancing old games is a good way to use this, as has been discussed. However, even that in itself would likely take so much effort to do (and to make it viable for a large audience to be able to play it once it's done), so I doubt many people would implement it.

I'm hopeful that some awesome things will come from this. However, I don't think it's very realistic.

~DS
GenoBlast
Guest
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2009, 10:00:49 pm »

Quote from: DarknessSavior on December 10, 2009, 09:51:09 pm
I don't see anyone jumping on board to manufacture a bunch of these
There have been several long discussions working on getting this done.

Quote from: DarknessSavior on December 10, 2009, 09:51:09 pm
nor do I see a bunch of fans wanting to pay up the wazoo to buy them.
How much is a bunch? I have seen around five people...

Quote from: DarknessSavior on December 10, 2009, 09:51:09 pm
I also haven't seen many homebrew SNES games that are worth their salt.
Hopefully this will change.

Quote from: DarknessSavior on December 10, 2009, 09:51:09 pm
However, even that in itself would likely take so much effort to do (and to make it viable for a large audience to be able to play it once it's done), so I doubt many people would implement it.
smkdan was able to get Super Mario World loading mp3 tracks within hours of the first bsnes 21fx test build being posted.
BRPXQZME
Guest
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2009, 10:04:01 pm »

Quote from: Killa B on December 10, 2009, 10:00:49 pm
Quote from: DarknessSavior on December 10, 2009, 09:51:09 pm
I don't see anyone jumping on board to manufacture a bunch of these
There have been several long discussions working on getting this done.
This strikes me as a topic of conversations soon to be conducted primarily in Chinese dialects Cheesy
DarknessSavior
Guest
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2009, 10:08:54 pm »

Quote from: Killa B on December 10, 2009, 10:00:49 pm
How much is a bunch? I have seen around five people...
A bunch is more than 5. Even some of those random handhelds that are coming into the market have hundreds upon hundreds of people buying them. That's what I'm talking about. Sure, there's a group of people interested in SNES stuff. But interested enough to buy a $50 add-on?

Quote from: Killa B on December 10, 2009, 10:00:49 pm
Hopefully this will change.
I agree. The one really great game I saw (the four-player fighting game that d4s made, I believe) was really impressive, and shows that it is possible and that great things can be done. Perhaps this add-on will inspire people further.

Quote from: Killa B on December 10, 2009, 10:00:49 pm
smkdan was able to get Super Mario World loading mp3 tracks within hours of the first bsnes 21fx test build being posted.
Just loading mp3 tracks is one thing. Getting videos going, taking advantage of the giant amount of space available, that kind of thing, will take a long time. Of course, I'm impressed that it was done that quickly. So this does show that there are people out there interested enough to get this going, so I have some more hope.

Quote from: BRPXQZME on December 10, 2009, 10:04:01 pm
Quote from: Killa B on December 10, 2009, 10:00:49 pm
Quote from: DarknessSavior on December 10, 2009, 09:51:09 pm
I don't see anyone jumping on board to manufacture a bunch of these
There have been several long discussions working on getting this done.
This strikes me as a topic of conversations soon to be conducted primarily in Chinese dialects Cheesy
Haha. True. If byuu could find someone to manufacture these cheaply and efficiently (hey, I've got a cheap Chinese NES knockoff that runs better than my original NES ever did!), I'd probably buy one. Everything I said was me just being realistic, though.

~DS
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