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Author Topic: Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes leaked  (Read 2 times)
Nerd42
Guest
« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2009, 07:24:09 pm »

Quote from: charlequin on November 29, 2009, 01:23:29 pm
As much as many corporations with significant investment in "intellectual property" would like to take many rights away from us, the ability to freely use and duplicate solely for one's own use rightfully purchased content (that isn't encrypted, anyway) is still protected under copyright law for now.
That sentence just jumped out at me, because it's not true. The DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) prohibits the use and even the possession of any technology to circumvent any digital "copy protection" (by which they mean "copy prevention") measures of any kind, whether for the purposes of copyright infringement or not. If you break the copy prevention, you are breaking the law."Fair Use" may be a defense for whatever you're actually doing with the content but not for breaking the copy prevention measures in order to do it.

Now, I'm pretty sure that in the case of ROM hacking. many of the games we hack were originally released with chips that were meant to serve as copy prevention measures. This makes any ROM hack based on a ROM of these games a DMCA violation.

However, if we are going to look at reality instead of at legal theory we'd realize that the DMCA doesn't have any real teeth that affects the millions of people (and I'm not just talking about file sharers here) who unknowingly violate it on a daily basis.

(later edit) I replaced the word "protection" with the word "prevention" on purpose because words are powerful things, and for years they have been used by the big corporations to try to convince us that the measures they have been trying to employ to control us are actually there to, in some undefined sense, "protect" us and our rights. Anytime we hear of a "protection" measure, we need to ask who is being protected against what, and whether the word is being used in a politically neutral way. This is why I suggest the term "copy prevention" - you aren't being "protected" against being able to make copies of stuff you've bought - you're being "prevented" and that's all there is to it.

November 29, 2009, 07:38:15 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Quote from: Deathlike2 on November 28, 2009, 08:21:49 pm
You agreed to it by acquiring the cart. Just because you didn't get the manual, it doesn't mean you can ignore its terms. You are still bound to them.
LOL, that's nonsense. I don't even see a point in dignifying it with a rebuttal, other than to say that the same argument can be used to justify any form of tyranny. Godwin's law would suggest, "The Jews agreed to be subject to the final solution policies by living in German-occupied territories or by wearing the yellow stars."

(later edit) Wait a minute, I meant that such laws as you describe are themselves nonsense, not necessarily that your explanation of what they say is nonsense.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 07:41:20 pm by Nerd42 »
I.S.T.
Guest
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2009, 09:41:23 pm »

You don't understand Godwin's Law...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
Tauwasser
Guest
« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2009, 09:53:11 pm »

See, world war happens when people start reading the EULA. Stop reading EULAs now Cheesy

cYa,

Tauwasser
Nerd42
Guest
« Reply #63 on: November 30, 2009, 01:14:43 am »

Quote from: I.S.T. on November 29, 2009, 09:41:23 pm
You don't understand Godwin's Law...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches " My point was that I was making a Nazi/Hitler analogy, which was about due given the size of this discussion.
Moulinoski
Guest
« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2009, 06:54:25 am »

Quote from: Tauwasser on November 29, 2009, 09:53:11 pm
See, world war happens when people start reading the EULA. Stop reading EULAs now Cheesy

cYa,

Tauwasser

XD This made my morning! Woo!
KingMike
Guest
« Reply #65 on: November 30, 2009, 10:38:07 pm »

Quote from: Nerd42 on November 30, 2009, 05:34:11 pm
Quote from: Tauwasser on November 29, 2009, 06:16:18 pm
It is not. Ever noticed the "Not for resale" signs on the packaging? You're not allowed to resell your stuff to anybody, period. That people turn a blind eye on it just so happens because we don't think of games we bought as someone else's belonging.
Yeah, those "Not for Resale" stickers don't have the law behind them though, no matter what the EULA says. There is such a thing as the "First Sale Doctrine." I think if that was ever tested in court, Nazitendo would get a legally bloodied nose.
I see "not for resale" carts on ebay regularly.
Isn't it (just marginally) harder to find a copy of Sonic 1 or 2 for Genesis that DOESN'T have "Not for resale" written on it. Grin
Deathlike2
Guest
« Reply #66 on: December 01, 2009, 01:51:57 am »

Quote from: Tauwasser on November 30, 2009, 08:50:43 pm
Also, I don't think you can get dialup here anymore. I am aware there are services who you can dial and get internet, but these don't offer contracts. You simply dial their number and pay per minute and kilobyte.

It sounds like it is handled differently, but metered dialup is costly, so nobody in their right mind would do that for extended periods.

Quote from: KingMike on November 30, 2009, 10:38:07 pm
I see "not for resale" carts on ebay regularly.
Isn't it (just marginally) harder to find a copy of Sonic 1 or 2 for Genesis that DOESN'T have "Not for resale" written on it. Grin

My guess is that the ones sold on e-bay are those that hold onto the display case version of said game (the ones that ran on the demo consoles in your gaming-electronics store)...
badinsults
Guest
« Reply #67 on: December 01, 2009, 02:28:37 am »

The "not for resale" Sonic games were pack-ins.


Also, I am heading back to my parents (where I might have to live for half a year, urg), and they only have access to dialup.  Wireless high speed connections in the area are neither reliable nor high speed.
andwhyisit
Guest
« Reply #68 on: December 02, 2009, 08:03:23 am »

Quote from: DarknessSavior on October 20, 2009, 08:44:54 pm
They could easily make the same claim if a game was made using CT's engine. It's still their property.

~DS
No.

The idea behind patches is that the engine isn't being distributed. The only thing that SE could sue them over is the process of creating the patch (editing the rom), and the patching itself by the user (editing the rom). The final release as a patch should be considered quite legal since by the very nature of patches you are not distributing anything from the original rom.
Nerd42
Guest
« Reply #69 on: December 02, 2009, 09:12:37 am »

Quote from: andwhyisit on December 02, 2009, 08:03:23 am
Quote from: DarknessSavior on October 20, 2009, 08:44:54 pm
They could easily make the same claim if a game was made using CT's engine. It's still their property.

~DS
No.

The idea behind patches is that the engine isn't being distributed. The only thing that SE could sue them over is the process of creating the patch (editing the rom), and the patching itself by the user (editing the rom). The final release as a patch should be considered quite legal since by the very nature of patches you are not distributing anything from the original rom.
The patch is clearly a derivative work based on Chrono Trigger as it would not exist without a Chrono Trigger rom to build it. Given the ridiculously expanded scope of copyright we have now, it is definitely still an infringement.
Moulinoski
Guest
« Reply #70 on: December 02, 2009, 09:57:40 am »

And that's where we get into gray legal area... :/ Since patches in themselves are harmless but they require a rom (which, ideally, you dumped yourself).
MathOnNapkins
Guest
« Reply #71 on: December 07, 2009, 01:50:51 pm »

Please note that this topic has been split, with posts mostly relating to hot coffee litigation or anything else that deviates significantly from discussion of Crimson Echoes being moved there. The topic can be found here
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