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Author Topic: Machine versus Human Translation Discussion  (Read 2 times)
BRPXQZME
Guest
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2009, 07:42:06 pm »

FWIW, I was only making an effort to answer the second question in the OP (“Have machine translation tools progressed to the point where they are with some editing a passable alternative to human translation?”), rather than the first. Opinion-wise, I have no problem with an edited MT as long as it makes some bloody sense, and as long as nobody’s trying to pass it off as the real McCoy.
Psychlonic
Guest
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2009, 07:48:12 pm »

I thought this was supposed to be the central hub for rom hacking where hacks can be found, not the rom hacking equivalent of OCRemix. Might as well get rid of incomplete translations as well and abolish anything not 100% because they're actually worse than a machine translation. This site hosts the dead, buggy, unplayable Record of Lodoss War patch and this isn't good enough? Horrible script insertions for the Wonderswan Final Fantasy games are also available. This is just off the top of my head, too.

From what I understand, trumisery has put forth a good honest effort and does not try to label his work as definitive. It IS, however, SOMETHING for those of us who can't speak a word of Japanese until something better comes along. In that respect, it's just as good if not better than those dead projects or hacked up insertions.

I'm not saying this because I'm going to miss out, it's just annoying to see cherry picking happening here and defeating the purpose of this site. Hey, I'm not staff so who am I to say what the purpose is, but I remember when I joined it was to house works in which effort has been put into. It's a silly decision that will continue to look so until either a: the patch is hosted or b: all the other hacks which probably aren't nearly as good are deleted and RHDN is pronounced as elite hacks only.

I won't lose sleep over the choice and neither should anyone else, but I figured I'd offer my two cents on the matter.
Ryusui
Guest
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2009, 10:25:28 pm »

Like I said, just copying-and-pasting a machine translation is just pure nonsense. At the very least, you should go over the script and play the game through to make sure the script actually makes sense.
Hamlet
Guest
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2009, 05:21:22 am »

Quote from: Ryusui on September 23, 2009, 10:25:28 pm
Like I said, just copying-and-pasting a machine translation is just pure nonsense. At the very least, you should go over the script and play the game through to make sure the script actually makes sense.

Yeah, I agree, but let us not forget that even making sense is relative. And I'm actually quoting the best person for demonstrating this, what a nice coincidence. Wink Because Ryusui retranslated Breath of Fire II and we all know how the official English translation looked and “made sense”.
Nightcrawler
Guest
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2009, 07:55:15 am »

The official Bof2 was run through a machine translator. A human couldn't possibly have done that lousy of a job! Grin
Hamlet
Guest
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2009, 08:32:17 am »

Quote from: Nightcrawler on September 24, 2009, 07:55:15 am
The official Bof2 was run through a machine translator. A human couldn't possibly have done that lousy of a job! Grin

You exactly phrase what I hesitated to utter! Wink
Because if this "translation" has the official right of existence, then... 

EDIT: I just had a hilarious thought, what if Capcom (or whoever has the official rights to BOF2) created a patch that turns the Japanese ROM into the official English version and decided to make it public domain. AND RHDN would refuse to host it due to crappy translation.  :laugh:
Recca
Guest
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2009, 11:40:24 pm »

Quote from: DarthNemesis on September 22, 2009, 02:54:11 pm
They're passable for simple words like menu items, provided you have the editing... but they completely fail for dialogue, as they are unable to take context into account.
I agree entirely with DarthNemesis. Not to mention that online sites translate literally which does not work well for jokes and expressions either.

Haha, Zero Wing looks as though it was copy and pasted into the game from a machine translator. "All your bases are belong to us." :laugh:

Anyways, I think that RHDN should host the patch if only to draw attention to this game. That way, there's a higher chance that a human translator might volunteer to take up the project.
dshadoff
Guest
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2009, 07:37:02 pm »

I see something along the lines of 80+% approval within this thread for accepting this translation on the site.

It was mentioned that a favorable response of this sort would change the stance of the moderators...

So.... Has the decision of whether to host the translation patch here changed ?
(re: Startling Odyssey 2 for PC Engine)
Neil
Guest
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2009, 03:10:34 pm »

Sounds like it.
Validus
Guest
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2009, 02:45:00 pm »

This is a romhacking website. The game was hacked and effort was put into hacking it. I think it should be allowed. I am okay with not hosting patches with minimal hacking such as palette hacking, but genuine hacking effort was put into this game. There are plenty of games here that have inaccurate or crappy translation, should we start removing those? Should we start monitoring the content of all translation hacks to see if they meet correct grammar standards and such.  What if I make a patch that changes the story of a game completely, but did this on purpose. Would it not be hosted because it does not have the exact story or content of the original game? As long as the hack makes note of where the translation came from it should be allow. If not, we should base all accepted hacks on the translators work and not the rom hackers and maybe change the name of the site to ROMTanslating dot net


I have seen the pictures for this game and read the text, the text is fine and not "babelfished" or Engrish, it is clear direct and even inspiring. Its not a squaresoft translation but jeez no one gets paid for doing this stuff.

Either way though I will be getting my patch when it comes out. I just feel like this should get put on here FOR OTHER PEOPLE that dont know where the patch WILL be posted and dont access the forums like we do they just browse the latest translations releases. I did that for years on here before i actually made an account months ago.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 03:09:32 pm by Validus »
dshadoff
Guest
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2009, 06:13:16 pm »

For those people who believe that the patch shouldn't be hosted here...  I wonder if it might satisfy them to create another category for "Patch Language" of "Broken English" or something similar.

After all, there are also patches hosted here for various languages which those people are not able to speak, and thus not able to be critical of.  This type of categorization would also give the casual user a good idea of what to expect, so they wouldn't be disappointed if they decided to try it out.

Validus
Guest
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2009, 11:49:01 pm »

I do not see any broken english, do you?









Or were you reffering to another translation?
dshadoff
Guest
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2009, 12:12:50 am »

Quote from: Validus on October 21, 2009, 11:49:01 pm
I do not see any broken english, do you?

Or were you reffering to another translation?

I was referring to the thread subject (not any particular game), as there are some people who are opposed to hosting machine-translated patches, simply in principle.

As for Startling Odyssey, I support it and I realize that it has been edited sufficiently to make it comprehensible and to 'flow' - however even Tru has admitted that it doesn't quite reach the standards that he would like to bring it to.
Kagemusha
Guest
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2009, 12:19:42 am »

Hasn't Terminator taught us anything? When the machines take over, all hope for humanity will be lost or so the story goes.

Aside from that there are probably more pitfalls than positives with machine translators. I'd say it would be around the same level of quality of translating with absolutely no context and somebody translating with a very limited knowledge of the language. Warui Toransu comes to mind, which doesn't really help anyone.
Next gen Cowboy
Guest
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2009, 02:47:45 pm »

Good old fashion discussion, no one has been stabbed, shot, or beaten yet, so that is a good thing. In the tradition that every topic must escalate into an epidemic of massive proportions let me state: Like most I am all for it if it helps find a translator; but at the same time why is it so important that it be hosted? Why not just show it off in the projects section, or via help wanted ad?
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