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Author Topic: Obvious Improvements  (Read 2 times)
GenoBlast
Guest
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2009, 10:22:24 pm »

Quote from: Garoth Moulinoski on January 28, 2009, 10:03:22 pm
What'll happen if the P1 for PSP's localization is the same thing? Maybe Atlus feels lazy, y'know?
From what I've read, Atlus USA is really embarrassed that the whole Persona localization fiasco ever happened. I would bet large sums of money on a brand new translation if the PSP port ever happens.
Ryochan
Guest
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2009, 10:23:28 pm »

Quote from: TreborAlmay on January 28, 2009, 03:14:20 pm
That's kinda what I was getting at. If things are too vague then new players that start the games will just shut it off when they get stuck. I mean heck, I grew up playing the Ninja Gaidens and such but when I pop one in now and it kicks my butt(cheaply) then I just say screw it and play another game(as I'm sure hundreds of others do). Some games need to be tamed down in difficulty, some need better translations, and some just need a simple clue as what to do next.

Perhaps it's just me, but I find that having run-arounds in games can be rather fun.  It reminds me of older novels and adventure stories, where not everything was out in front and made you think.  Admittedly, there are times that perhaps things should be altered to be easier, but other times, I find it gives more flavor, even if I have trouble completing them or having to look it up/ask someone.  But, I digress before this gets WAY off topic... Smiley
Ryusui
Guest
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2009, 10:42:37 pm »

Then there will be raaaaaaaaaage.
TreborAlmay
Guest
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2009, 11:03:28 pm »

Quote from: Ryochan on January 28, 2009, 10:23:28 pm
Quote from: TreborAlmay on January 28, 2009, 03:14:20 pm
That's kinda what I was getting at. If things are too vague then new players that start the games will just shut it off when they get stuck. I mean heck, I grew up playing the Ninja Gaidens and such but when I pop one in now and it kicks my butt(cheaply) then I just say screw it and play another game(as I'm sure hundreds of others do). Some games need to be tamed down in difficulty, some need better translations, and some just need a simple clue as what to do next.

Perhaps it's just me, but I find that having run-arounds in games can be rather fun.  It reminds me of older novels and adventure stories, where not everything was out in front and made you think.  Admittedly, there are times that perhaps things should be altered to be easier, but other times, I find it gives more flavor, even if I have trouble completing them or having to look it up/ask someone.  But, I digress before this gets WAY off topic... Smiley

Maybe I've just gotten lazy in my old age, but if stuff isn't pretty much spoon fed to me I get frustrated. As I've gotten older my patience with shoddy design has diminished.
Karatorian
Guest
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2009, 03:14:45 am »

It's funny, I always thought "attack while the tail is up" was intentionally bad advice. So you would do so, get punished for it, and not to it again. I figured it was a way to bring attention to the fact that you're not supposed to do so, and at the same time, be feindish. Never thought it was engrish. So, is it actually mistranslated?

In regards to obscure or outright false information in video games, I think there are a couple of reasons for it. Back in the eight bit era, most of the people working on a game where programmers, not writers, not game designers, not artists, but long hairs who can literally dream in code. Of course, they did write, they did do game design, and they did art, so in a way, they where. (And some of them brilliantly so.) But if the dialog isn't exactly Shakespeare, is it any wonder?

The other reason is that games used to be hard. Nowadays, there's a split between the casual market and the hardcore market, but that's relatively new. And even games for "hardcore" gamers and as hard as they used to be. I think there are several reasons for this, but I'm not entirely sure what they all are.

One factor is that the first video games where coin-op arcade machines. The goal in the arcade is to make money. The game design is a delicate balance of letting you get far enough to enjoy yourself and want to play again, and killing you off so that you (or the next guy) has to pay up. So the early game programmers learned to make feindishly hard games. And this carried over to consoles. Somehow, even generas, like RPGs, that'd never be made as arcade games, where still really difficult.

Sometimes I think it's pretty silly how far things have gone the other way. I think the dificulty level of modern games gets pretty low at times. Of course, nothing is more frustrating than getting locked to a standstill by a hard game, so too hard can be really bad. But I mostly play RPGs and other non-twitch games and they seem to mostly be pretty easy. It's like you breaze through all the gameplay just to get on with the storyline. Ah, maybe I'm just jaded.

Anyway, you know what's a simple and obvious improvement (although not text realated) to a classic game. The &$*&^ing beeping in various Zelda games.

"Yes, I know, I'm about to die."
"No, you don't need to annoy me about it."

It's especially obnoxious when you have a bunch of hearts, so the beeping zone is like three hearts or so. I know, some really nasty bad guys will do that much. But at the start of the game, that was full health. Now it beeps?!

I'm sure someone has already hacked that, but I have a cool idea. I think it'd be neat to replace the beeping with a much more modern technique that serves the same function, a music change. This is kinda an in thing these days, but I'm sure it could be done on old school tech. Whether a simple tempo increase, or whole different track, I think it'd be cool. Besides, the beepin's already in the sound code, so it would be a relatively easy hack. Any takers?
BRPXQZME
Guest
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2009, 12:06:24 pm »

Quote from: Karatorian on January 30, 2009, 03:14:45 am
It's funny, I always thought "attack while the tail is up" was intentionally bad advice. So you would do so, get punished for it, and not to it again. I figured it was a way to bring attention to the fact that you're not supposed to do so, and at the same time, be feindish. Never thought it was engrish. So, is it actually mistranslated?
Yes. The line is something like:

尻尾を上げている間に攻撃するとレーザーで反撃してくるぞ!

I have highlighted the one thing the transrator should have probably paid more attention to.

It’s fun to say, “BARRETT WHAT THE HELL!” (kekeke! he’s such the practical joker!) but IIRC it’s actually Cloud that says this.
TreborAlmay
Guest
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2009, 12:11:21 pm »

Quote from: Karatorian on January 30, 2009, 03:14:45 am


Anyway, you know what's a simple and obvious improvement (although not text realated) to a classic game. The &$*&^ing beeping in various Zelda games.

"Yes, I know, I'm about to die."
"No, you don't need to annoy me about it."

It's especially obnoxious when you have a bunch of hearts, so the beeping zone is like three hearts or so. I know, some really nasty bad guys will do that much. But at the start of the game, that was full health. Now it beeps?!

I'm sure someone has already hacked that, but I have a cool idea. I think it'd be neat to replace the beeping with a much more modern technique that serves the same function, a music change. This is kinda an in thing these days, but I'm sure it could be done on old school tech. Whether a simple tempo increase, or whole different track, I think it'd be cool. Besides, the beepin's already in the sound code, so it would be a relatively easy hack. Any takers?


Freaking yes! I always thought that it would have been a good idea to have the music kinda change. Like when your hearts got low something akin to the 'end of the world' music from Majora's Mask would play.
Moulinoski
Guest
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2009, 12:18:12 pm »

Quote from: BRPXQZME on January 30, 2009, 12:06:24 pm
Quote from: Karatorian on January 30, 2009, 03:14:45 am
It's funny, I always thought "attack while the tail is up" was intentionally bad advice. So you would do so, get punished for it, and not to it again. I figured it was a way to bring attention to the fact that you're not supposed to do so, and at the same time, be feindish. Never thought it was engrish. So, is it actually mistranslated?
Yes. The line is something like:

尻尾を上げている間に攻撃するとレーザーで反撃してくるぞ!

I have highlighted the one thing the transrator should have probably paid more attention to.

It’s fun to say, “BARRETT WHAT THE HELL!” (kekeke! he’s such the practical joker!) but IIRC it’s actually Cloud that says this.

I thought that line was a typo where they forgot to include "don't" in it. I think it was fixed for the PC version, right?

Hmm, I split the sentence apart and using Denshi Jisho, I was able to understand it (didn't know what the kanji meant and even if it was in hiragana, I wouldn't have known)

Goes something like this: "Attack while the tail is up and Laser will counter attack!" or something to that extent, right? Still... how could you mistranslate that (and I don't even get the full meaning of the tenses)?

Darn it, BRPXQZME... Posting while I'm editing my post! XD
« Last Edit: January 30, 2009, 12:26:22 pm by Garoth Moulinoski »
BRPXQZME
Guest
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2009, 12:21:54 pm »

“don’t” works, but the literal text of what went AWOL can be thought of as “..., and ....” or more accurately, “if ..., ....”

And the PC version does fix a lot of things. I never noticed all the things gone terribly awry because I never played the PSX version in English!
Lindblum
Guest
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2009, 04:49:22 pm »

In CV3 I'd like it if they made it a smidge easier for Grant to climb around the corners. 
DW2 and DW3 contradict each other in terms of Rubiss's gender. 
In Double Dragon they would take your weapon away after every fight. 
In LZ1, the booklet says there is a way out of every situation, but if you're in the NE corner of Level 5 without keys I think you can trap yourself. 
LZ2 had the same problem as CV2.  Rather than give you meaningful clues, most women just wanted to flirt. 
In the FF games I always hated waiting for spell attacks to cycle through each enemy.  Someone should speed that up. 
In NG1, the Masked Devil fight is a shameless battle of attrition.  Name 3 people in the history of the universe who've won that fight unscathed.  The "screw attack" powerup was awesome, except when you realize it's a waste of magic that doesn't let you do normal jump attacks. 
In SMB1 I always hated how if Fire Mario gets hurt he goes all the way back to Inch-from-death Mario. 
In SMB3 the unremitting P-Wing sound took a lot of the fun away from the privilege of having a P-Wing.  I also wish you could keep the Kuribo Shoe. 
In Star Tropics, there's the infamous part where you have to soak the game booklet to see the "747".  Was that an attempt to break the 4th wall, or to confuse players with extradiegetic literalism? 
In TMNT1 Shredder is a complete pushover who cringes more than any final boss ever. 
Kajitani-Eizan
Guest
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2009, 05:12:20 pm »

yeah that's pretty close. "Attack while the tail's up, and it'll counterattack with a laser!" here, the implication that you SHOULDN'T attack while the tail is up is pretty clear.

i have no idea how this line got mistranslated. at first i thought maybe the translator had no context and thought it was saying "While the tail's up, attack and counterattack with your laser!", as unlikely as that is. except 1) it says COUNTERattack (反撃 rather than the usual 攻撃), and it would be odd to use it here, and 2) it even says 反撃してくる. as if the whole COUNTERattack thing wasn't obvious enough that the above translation is totally wrong.

that or the translator accidentally just happened not to notice half the sentence: "尻尾を上げている間に攻撃するとレーザーで反撃してくるぞ!" OPPS

all this, of course, assuming the posted line is accurate or at least decently close enough.
Moulinoski
Guest
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2009, 05:21:22 pm »

Quote from: Kajitani-Eizan on January 30, 2009, 05:12:20 pm
and 2) it even says 反撃してくる. as if the whole COUNTERattack thing wasn't obvious enough that the above translation is totally wrong.

I know that te form is used, but does くる mean in that context? "will" (as in "will do something")?
Kajitani-Eizan
Guest
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2009, 07:19:51 pm »

as i understand it, it's sort of a helper verb in this context, indicating a sense of "coming" (no, not like THAT). in this case, that the boss will "come and counterattack with his laser", sort of. it can be spatial, or it can be temporal as well. in any case it indicates some sort of directionality towards the speaker, which is why it would be silly to conclude that anyone other than the enemy might be the one counterattacking (assuming that you assume that cloud or barret is the speaker).
Moulinoski
Guest
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2009, 07:48:54 pm »

Oh, okay... So its basically the same as the regular meaning. I gotta focus on Japanese a little more again... X_x Te form is used to say "verb and verb" and I nearly forgot.
BRPXQZME
Guest
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2009, 08:50:08 pm »

Quote from: Kajitani-Eizan on January 30, 2009, 07:19:51 pm
(no, not like THAT).
I got a good feeling.
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