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Author Topic: Hacks of Hacks?  (Read 2 times)
macbee
Guest
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2008, 07:54:13 pm »

Quote from: Lindblum on August 21, 2008, 05:49:02 pm
Dr.,
Hey whatever brings attention to my work will be fine by me.  My ego needs stroking.  I hope to release another partial patch this weekend.  Maybe we can instigate an FF7 revival that will compel Square to finally do a solid remake. 
There are a lot of things hackers can do to it.  It doesn't have the guy who are sick.  It uses the Aeris date scene; Someone can make a Tifa or Barret date patch.  It doesn't have Yuffie or Vincent.  Someone clever could probably fix that.  At the very least they can be inserted as NPCs, or add an enemy called "Materia Thief" that looks like Yuffie.  Most enemy sprites look FF7 unrelated.  Is it possible to fix it so that it uses normal mappers instead of the esoteric Nanjing 163? 

Macbee,
Now I'm curious about SMB MCB and its seminal graphics.  You don't have to ask to use my work, just show my name or something.  It would have to come before your name, and have bigger letters too. 

Actually, as long as you stay away from the text graphics you wouldn't even NEED my permission.  Sooo...?  GET TO WORK, PEOPLE!

HA! Grin
Hard to see people that are talented and also have a good sense of humour!  Count with my help if you need it someday! I'll write later about this "spread-of-my-gfx" episode. Now I'm too lazy. Smiley

Macbee
I.S.T.
Guest
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2008, 08:31:53 am »

Quote from: Lindblum on August 21, 2008, 05:49:02 pm
Maybe we can instigate an FF7 revival that will compel Square to finally do a solid remake. 

Is it possible to fix it so that it uses normal mappers instead of the esoteric Nanjing 163? 

1. You're joking. No way a romhacker could get Square-Enix to do a project that would cost over 100 million dollars.

2. Yes. Several mapper hacks exist, and are even here in RHDN's archive.
Lindblum
Guest
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2008, 09:33:50 am »

Quote
You're joking.
I call it a "flight of fancy".

By comparing Nestopia and FCEUX's Nanjing mapper code to that of common mappers I can maybe maybe implement it into other open-source emulators.  That's an issue for a different day and a different thread - and a different programmer who's better at that kind of thing. 

What if I wanted to take RuSteD LOgic's "Legend of the Blob Bros. 2", a wonderful graphics and level hack (possibly also music), and turn it into...let's say...a chronicle of 4 teletubbies who learn the devastating secrets of their totalitarian utopia, and the genetic experiments that created them, which leads them into battling rabbits, mutant failed teletubby clones, Boohbahs, Barney, Noo-Noo, Elmo, Jerry Falwell, all up to the climactic battle with the Baby Sun?  Not only does it give my hack a fresh feeling, but it gives the original hack increased notoriety.  If my patch has to be applied to their game to work, it makes it obvious that I'm not taking all the credit.  Welcome to the gray area. 
Nightcrawler
Guest
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2008, 12:41:48 pm »

If you (speaking in general) do not believe in asking your fellow (active and reachable) community member's permission to use their work or crediting them for the work you've used, then you don't belong here. RHDN is not meant for you. Please leave. Promoting strong community ethics of friendliness and respect are core principles this site was founded on and the target audience type it aims to serve.


Aside from our 'Addendum' Translations and foreign translations (many times they're piggybacked on top of English translation work), I don't know if we have any other hacks of hacks. I know there are a few hacks we have based on other improvement hacks or whatever, but they were specifically labeled as being free to be use as base hacks for others if I recall. As for a full fledged hack of a hack like Lindblum described, I don't think there are any that I'm aware of. The closest thing we have is foreign translations based on English translations.
 
tc
Guest
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2008, 04:32:03 pm »

Absolutely correct. I don't mind, but other people might. Always ask whenever possible. :thumbsup:
macbee
Guest
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2008, 11:23:38 pm »

People are taking two different situations as a single one.

- The first is about giving credits to the original romhacker. OF COURSE I will do this if I release "FF7 MCB" someday. My need for being respectful and correct with other's work is so evident I even do ridiculous, obvious and unnecessary things like credit Hudson Soft on an Adventure Island hack!!

- The second is to consider mandatory the bless of the original hacker. I will credit the people involved with the first project, of course. But I probably wouldn't quit because someone else doesn't think it's a good idea. How can I feel bad for HACKING A HACK, GODDAMMIT!? I can't even feel bad for the piracy and REAL copyright infringement involved on hacking projects.

As I said before, MANY people used sprites and tiles I created or modified on their hacks. I would love to be credited, but I can't (and I won't!) force anyone to do it remove my GFX. My goal is to change old games - not to be a pain in the ass.

And that's why I'll take this kind invitation to leave the board. I think romhacking is something beautiful and significant enough to be discussed and reflected as any other kind of art. At least this is how I face it.
If it's not how you face, then Nightcrawler is right.. This place isn't for me and I have no interest in becoming 'the annoying guy' that every single board in the universe has.

You can always reach me at http://www.tcheco.com/mcbhacks/
The page will finally get a update in September - to celebrate my 10 years of romhacking.

And my YouTube account have some humorous trailers of my hacks. Keep your eyes on it - a new video is about to be uploaded in September too. By now, I have:

'Adovento Tcheco' (hack of Keroppi 2 for NES)
http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=sLXAQ8GK-UY

'New! New! New! New! Mario Bros. (hack of NES' Mario Bros.)
http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=mBWUN5QAmSo

And a mix of my 'Pinball' and 'Adventure Island' modifications
http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=JGIGKwmk3D0

Bye!
Macbee

Quote from: Nightcrawler on August 22, 2008, 12:41:48 pm
If you (speaking in general) do not believe in asking your fellow (active and reachable) community member's permission to use their work or crediting them for the work you've used, then you don't belong here. RHDN is not meant for you. Please leave. Promoting strong community ethics of friendliness and respect are core principles this site was founded on and the target audience type it aims to serve.


Aside from our 'Addendum' Translations and foreign translations (many times they're piggybacked on top of English translation work), I don't know if we have any other hacks of hacks. I know there are a few hacks we have based on other improvement hacks or whatever, but they were specifically labeled as being free to be use as base hacks for others if I recall. As for a full fledged hack of a hack like Lindblum described, I don't think there are any that I'm aware of. The closest thing we have is foreign translations based on English translations.
 

Lindblum
Guest
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2008, 08:57:00 am »

What hath I wrought?  I only wanted a nice chat.
InVerse
Guest
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2008, 06:28:29 pm »

Quote from: Nightcrawler on August 22, 2008, 12:41:48 pm
If you (speaking in general) do not believe in asking your fellow (active and reachable) community member's permission to use their work or crediting them for the work you've used, then you don't belong here. RHDN is not meant for you. Please leave. Promoting strong community ethics of friendliness and respect are core principles this site was founded on and the target audience type it aims to serve.

So ROM hackers are deserving of respect but people who create original works aren't? Why should someone bother getting permission to use someone else's hack when the original hacker more than likely didn't bother to ask permission to hack the original game in the first place? It's polite to let them know, in case they have any questions/concerns/suggestions, but not imperative.

Also, some day you should do a sanity check between what you intend for the site to be and what it actually is. The community that you constantly tout is filled with hypocrisy, deceit and elitism. Speaking of hypocrisy, I recall you jumping all over me because I suggested that a sizable group of people who disliked one person politely ask him to leave in a PM. Now you're openly suggesting that people leave because they don't share your opinion on a single subject. Normally, I would concede that it's your site and you have the right to do whatever you see fit, but you're the one that constantly insists that it's the community's site. I'm fairly certain that "social dictatorship" isn't among the flotsam that is Web 2.0.
creaothceann
Guest
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2008, 06:56:11 pm »

Quote from: InVerse on August 23, 2008, 06:28:29 pm
Quote from: Nightcrawler on August 22, 2008, 12:41:48 pm
If you (speaking in general) do not believe in asking your fellow (active and reachable) community member's permission to use their work or crediting them for the work you've used, then you don't belong here. RHDN is not meant for you. Please leave. Promoting strong community ethics of friendliness and respect are core principles this site was founded on and the target audience type it aims to serve.

Why should someone bother getting permission to use someone else's hack when the original hacker more than likely didn't bother to ask permission to hack the original game in the first place?

People coming together and collaborating requires respect; this goes for all kinds of projects.

In the same vein, generals planning in a war room don't have to bring guns and shoot at each other.
Deathlike2
Guest
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2008, 07:02:35 pm »

Quote from: InVerse on August 23, 2008, 06:28:29 pm
Quote from: Nightcrawler on August 22, 2008, 12:41:48 pm
If you (speaking in general) do not believe in asking your fellow (active and reachable) community member's permission to use their work or crediting them for the work you've used, then you don't belong here. RHDN is not meant for you. Please leave. Promoting strong community ethics of friendliness and respect are core principles this site was founded on and the target audience type it aims to serve.

So ROM hackers are deserving of respect but people who create original works aren't? Why should someone bother getting permission to use someone else's hack when the original hacker more than likely didn't bother to ask permission to hack the original game in the first place? It's polite to let them know, in case they have any questions/concerns/suggestions, but not imperative.

There is some irony to this, but I think it has a lot more to do with how the original author of the hack may be offended. In the case of the original author of the game itself, that would be in the form of a "cease and desist" type of deal...  I'm not saying it's the best justification of the matter, but no romhacker should be making a profit out of this, just credit.

Quote
Also, some day you should do a sanity check between what you intend for the site to be and what it actually is. The community that you constantly tout is filled with hypocrisy, deceit and elitism. Speaking of hypocrisy, I recall you jumping all over me because I suggested that a sizable group of people who disliked one person politely ask him to leave in a PM. Now you're openly suggesting that people leave because they don't share your opinion on a single subject. Normally, I would concede that it's your site and you have the right to do whatever you see fit, but you're the one that constantly insists that it's the community's site. I'm fairly certain that "social dictatorship" isn't among the flotsam that is Web 2.0.

I have no idea what politics goes behind closed doors, nor would I care to know. I think there is some seperation of how the board works vs what the romhackers are doing. I can't say that I know what lines are drawn or even crossed. Whatever I guess...
Lindblum
Guest
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2008, 07:32:06 pm »

On a lighter note, the macbee trailers put a big smile on my face Smiley Obrigado!
« Last Edit: August 23, 2008, 07:48:39 pm by Lindblum »
tc
Guest
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2008, 07:35:38 pm »

The community tends to consider hacking a hack without attempting to ask permission disrespectful. Seeing how much effort gets put into some. If the person can't be contacted, it's usually assumed in good faith they'd be OK with it.
Kitsune Sniper
Guest
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2008, 07:42:12 pm »

The international community IS changing. I've been approached by no less than two different French teams, interested in translating my patches to their language. I've offered them my notes, but they both said they'd rather work off my patch, which I have a problem with. My hacks are messy and I really don't think they'll be able to figure out what I was thinking of when I did whatever it was that I did.

I REALLY hate when people take something I've done and modify it without even consulting me about it. It's partly because I feel it's a bit disrespectful, and also because I think it'd be easier for them if they asked me for help. *shrugs*

At least the French ask for permission... unlike many Latin American and Spaniard hackers. It's why I distanced myself from that scene. It's not as bad as it was eight years ago, but still. (Kinda ironic, since I'm the only Mexican here.)
I.S.T.
Guest
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2008, 07:56:37 pm »

I don't think it's a black and white issue. If all you're doing is a whole scale rip off of someone else's work, then not asking for permission is basically a slap in the face.

At the same time, what if someone cannot be contacted in any way? People tend to disappear from the romhacking world, sometimes for years and sometimes they never come back. How would you handle it then?
frantik
Guest
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2008, 08:05:49 pm »

Mario's Penis Adventure anyone?

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