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Topic: Request for translation patch for Ys The Oath in Felghana (Read 3952 times)
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KaioShin
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« Reply #60 on: July 21, 2007, 09:27:23 am » |
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I'm also pretty surprised NightWolve asked for the removal of his patches as well. I don't see how anything in this thread was given any sort of approval by RHDN staff aside from "Okay, we'll let this discussion continue but don't be jerks about it please". Did he go into any detail about why he wanted the removal of the patches, or did he just send a simple demand? I would be interested to see what he thinks, since I think his side of the argument has been under-represented so far. (There's nothing on his site about this development.)
He isn't stating any reasons, he just asks to have his work removed according to the disclaimer we have on every database page. Interesting enough he points out that he hopes his request is done "unbiased" (sic), I guess he refers to his various past clashes with Nightcrawler. And if it isn't too much trouble we should delete all other references to his site as well, specifically the forum - that is why I think this thread has something to do with it. As I said, I'd like to see if he has mentioned anything about us on his site, but he blocked IPs from Germany  |
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« Last Edit: July 21, 2007, 10:38:14 am by KaioShin »
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StarBeamAlpha
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« Reply #61 on: July 21, 2007, 10:13:07 am » |
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Ok, regardless of which argument is right or wrong, the consequence of what happens in reality is:
Ask for money -> some people get pissed off regardless if they are right/wrong -> romhacker gets pissed off because some people got pissed off -> more people get pissed off -> romhacker loses drive to translate things because he gets caught up in controversy -> all of which lead to less people playing the fan translations
So regardless of which argument is right or wrong, the consequence in reality is ask for money -> less people playing the fan translations.
In this specific case, controversy -> now people are going to search for Ys in RHDN and assume that the translations do not exist so even less people will play the fan translations.
Also what about the translator? If I had translated a game I would want as many people to play it as possible and enjoy it, now less people will play the translations that he worked on because something beyond his control happened.
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dshadoff
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« Reply #62 on: July 21, 2007, 11:08:34 am » |
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I guess you could say that my point of view is that you can't really expect your own point of view to be automatically adopted by somebody else (ever)... particularly when you yourself are not following rules in the greater community (ie. laws) on the same subject matter. It's hypocritical, as Tomaitheous had said previously. Man ... "hypocritical" ... "pot, kettle, black" ... no. These terms mean doing something while saying that exact same thing is wrong. I would be hypocritical if I sold my own translations and then turned around and attacked NightWolve for doing the exact same thing. I would be hypocritical if I argued that releasing any fan translations, regardless of whether or not they are free, is wrong -- because I have done so myself. Byuu, I think you misunderstood my point. I did not mean to say that you are hypocritical - I mean to say that when one tries to enforce their own personal views on somebody else, they risk being interpreted as hypocritical to any random person who does not know them and their personal philosophy. I have noticed that you personally don't try to enforce your own personal views on somebody else, so I should have been using the third person pronoun "one" rather than "you", as I was commenting about the general case, not the specific one. |
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Piotyr
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« Reply #63 on: July 21, 2007, 11:11:11 am » |
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Wow. I am sad that people are getting pissed off at the forum as a whole because it allowed disguession of a topic when its a disguession forum. As long as romhacking.net does not take a stance etc I do not understand what people are getting so uptight about. And some people are taking this too far, this is a place to disguess your opinion and debate not argue and flame. When someone disagrees you should agree to disagree and maybe bring up why you think the other person is wrong and thats that, no need to call another person a dick or anything like that.
And hey I think I have been pretty civil here too along with Byuu! I made my opinion on the subject and didn't really do much more.
Also for the person who knows nightwolf can you bring up we refused to give any links or help regarding his leaked beta patch? We are respecting his wishes and will continue to do so, even if we disagree with them.
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Lashiec
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« Reply #64 on: July 21, 2007, 12:07:13 pm » |
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As I said, I'd like to see if he has mentioned anything about us on his site, but he blocked IPs from Germany I'm still free to roam the site, and I didn't found anything in the front page (last updated in March) nor in the forum. |
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Lenophis
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« Reply #65 on: July 21, 2007, 12:51:45 pm » |
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...but I can't access it since he blocked access from something like 75% of the world outside the US to his website out of paranoia) I guess. Gee, I wonder why...  Honestly, I hope he does intend to sell his patch. *dodges pies* Ahhh, but there's madness behind my reasoning. The instant his patch hits the net is when he is legally in trouble. I believe it would be "conspiracy to profit off of stolen goods" or some other nonsensicle bullshit many-worded phrase. Add in the malware for his "protection," and that's willful intent (premeditated) to damage the property of others. The fact that he's even been open about charging for his work should be enough to throw him away for a while. *sigh* Oh well. |
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Kitsune Sniper
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« Reply #66 on: July 21, 2007, 01:09:22 pm » |
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As I said, I'd like to see if he has mentioned anything about us on his site, but he blocked IPs from Germany I'm still free to roam the site, and I didn't found anything in the front page (last updated in March) nor in the forum. He's blocked entire countries that have really stupid users or people who want to pirate (aheh) his patch. I'd do the same with certain countries if I could. As it is I only block referrers. |
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KaioShin
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« Reply #67 on: July 21, 2007, 01:10:45 pm » |
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As I said, I'd like to see if he has mentioned anything about us on his site, but he blocked IPs from Germany I'm still free to roam the site, and I didn't found anything in the front page (last updated in March) nor in the forum. He's blocked entire countries that have really stupid users or people who want to pirate (aheh) his patch. He can block access from everywhere around the world then. I'd do the same with Brazil if I could.
I can agree with that  |
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Kitsune Sniper
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« Reply #68 on: July 21, 2007, 01:11:15 pm » |
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I'd do the same with Brazil if I could.
I can agree with that I didn't say that, you can't prove I did, lalalalalalalalala |
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byuu
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« Reply #69 on: July 21, 2007, 02:02:40 pm » |
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Hmm, well I do apologize if I've caused a bunch of melodrama regarding this topic. Truth be told, I find the controversial subjects the most interesting ones to talk about. They're the most likely to convey new, interesting points, such as Dave's point regarding why companies do not go after us; and also the best way to gauge how your fellow peers really feel about the important issues that matter to you. I'd personally rather not 'pretend' everyone feels the same way I do about the really important stuff. I do appreciate everyone's feedback at any rate. satsu is definitely right that I'm only presenting one side of the argument here. I would be interested to see how Nightwolve justified his own actions to himself, he probably has very good reasons. For what it's worth, this thread does seem quite civil to me overall. Trust me when I say that things were a lot worse back in the early days of our scene. Nightwolve contacted us and requested all of his works and references to his works to be removed from our site. That's very unfortunate, as that certainly wasn't my goal. I didn't want Felghana hosted here as a share/mal/ware patch, but I had no problem with his other patches. They really were quite well done. We are not the scene, we only offer a site which serves as a meeting point for the biggest part of it. Hence we can't really enforce any kind of rules for the scene as a whole. However, some rules are enforced here. Not to start another "controversy," but for an example, it is my understanding that the Mother 3 translation will not be covered here at all, because it is too new of a game. I'm obviously only meaning insofar as the site itself, and not the message boards. I was pretty much aiming for an official decision / consensus of whether or not we would be posting news of and/or hosting the Felghana patch at this site. Byuu, I think you misunderstood my point. I did not mean to say that you are hypocritical - I mean to say that when one tries to enforce their own personal views on somebody else, they risk being interpreted as hypocritical to any random person who does not know them and their personal philosophy. I see ... and a very good point at that. My apologies for misunderstanding you, then. Truth is, I am hypocritical on a few things, and it actually does bother me a lot. Such as the way I violate copyright law when I see fit, yet try and license some of my software using those very same laws. But that's another discussion entirely ... |
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Piotyr
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« Reply #70 on: July 21, 2007, 02:08:00 pm » |
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Do as I say not as I do eh? Its hard living life without that concept because we do bad things sometimes but we don't want others to do it so they may be better people then ourselves.
Its kinda like a parent smoking but not wanting their child to smoke.
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satsu
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« Reply #71 on: July 21, 2007, 02:13:44 pm » |
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satsu is definitely right that I'm only presenting one side of the argument here. I would be interested to see how Nightwolve justified his own actions to himself, he probably has very good reasons.
I wasn't faulting that, I just thought that the other side of the argument seemed under-represented in terms of supporters. I don't see why you would argue in favour of something you don't agree with unless you were playing the devil's advocate. |
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Talbain
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« Reply #72 on: July 21, 2007, 03:51:19 pm » |
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Actually, Nightwolve's reason, from what I've gathered, seemingly has to do with all the so-called "butt pirates" (Nightwolve's words, not mine) who don't want to pay for patches for no other reason than that they don't want to. He's supposedly angry at people who insult him despite getting free patches for games.
I must say I wouldn't be happy either--but in all honesty, I'm not sure what the alternative is. For anything that is questionably (il)legal, there are always going to be detractors. I should think most who are involved in this hobby would know this by now.
I don't see much logic to the aforementioned argument, but the other ones had to do with the fact that he was spending money on this hobby, and wanted to recoup expenses from those who use his work. Again, not what I would call the moral high ground, but I suppose that's up to others to interpret.
I've decided that I'm pretty much done with this topic regardless, since I've never used Nightwolve's patches, and really have no intention of ever doing so, since I'm not interested in the Ys games. While I don't think this should prevent me from commenting, I think that my anger towards those who sell patches makes it easy to incite rather incendiary remarks from me. More than that, it's hard to tell just what this thread is arguing about anymore. If it's the law, it's already far past the scope of that because the law is clear. If it's morality, I'd say it's past the scope of that, because morality also seems quite clear. What it seems to me then, is that this is an argument about character. I do not know Nightwolve, so I cannot argue about his character, excepting those comments I receive via the grapevine.
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« Last Edit: July 21, 2007, 04:00:17 pm by Talbain »
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Nightcrawler
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« Reply #73 on: July 21, 2007, 06:24:05 pm » |
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This topic should have never been allowed to get off the ground. It's already caused enough headaches.
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