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Author Topic: Prevent people from hacking a hack?  (Read 3044 times)
Griff Morivan
Guest
« on: March 04, 2007, 06:59:34 pm »

I remember reading something on some forum a while ago about someone having come along attempting to hack... I think DOXII, but they couldn't get into it. Is it possible to prevent a hacker from hacking your hacked hack?
Spikeman
Guest
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2007, 07:07:46 pm »

I know they have something like this for SMW hacks, that "locks" the hack by encrypting the level data, but someone made an "unlocker" program. So no, no matter what you do, it's impossible to keep someone from hacking your hack. However, it is possible to make it very hard, to prevent noobs from hacking your hack. You could assume anyone skilled enough to get through your prevention methods would ask you first. Wink
Griff Morivan
Guest
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2007, 08:16:00 pm »

Eh. It's for an FF hack, so that wouldn't work anyhow. But yeah, thank you for the info.
KingMike
Guest
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2007, 09:20:57 pm »

From what I read, Lunar Magic "locks" hacks by writing a specific value to a probably-unused byte in the ROM.
If that specific byte is the specific value, Lunar Magic would refuse to edit the ROM.
I'd imagine an FF1 editor that locks hacks would do something similar.
deespence2929
Guest
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2007, 09:28:00 pm »

I guess you can always hide your name somewhere in the rom in future hacks. So if someone does hack your hack and try to pass it off as their own you can say, "theres my name" as proof it was yours originally.
DaMarsMan
Guest
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2007, 11:05:13 pm »

You could potentially make it very hard for anyone but it's a lot of work on your part.
Cyberman
Guest
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2007, 11:58:54 pm »

If you really are concerned about your hack being 'claimed' by some lazy twit ...
I suggest making up an anti 'thief' hack tool kit then.  IE Set up a set of various 'schemes' of 'gotcha's that someone who only does stupid stuff like resource hacking to make an emulator wouldn't get.   The basic thing is to automate it.  Yes you will have to put 1.5 times the amount of work for the first time. The second it would take almost no time at all because you have a tool that allows you too somewhat protect it.
With firmware in micros such as the ARM and various other processors they have protection bits as well as encyrption bits.  There are always ways of doing such things.  The thing that makes any such scheme useable is tooling.  I would go nuts having to hand encypt a binary image.  Instead I generate a suitably random key and send the key via the shell to the encryption tool that then dumps the key and encyrpted data into the processor.  This makes the work take the same amount of time it did before to program the processor to begin with.

Automate your protection! (auto ROM condom? Smiley )

Cyb
Euclid
Guest
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2007, 02:58:41 am »

My only concern with anti-hacking tools is just to make sure people can't open it up in an editor and look at everything (ie spoilers). One of the easiest way to do this on snes is to repoint the level data.

The other concern which is not really refering to somebody hacking it is so that people can't use the original game's save states/save rams on the hack.

Another way which I've used is to find some spare level data space, add a "debug room" which has your name in it (and of course make sure the editor can't view it etc), it's not obvious to a hacker trying to steal your work but it works.
Gemini
Guest
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2007, 04:59:33 am »

Quote from: Griff Morivan on March 04, 2007, 06:59:34 pm
Is it possible to prevent a hacker from hacking your hacked hack?
It is possible to protect them, of course, but everything is hackable anyway. For example: my Akumajō Dracula X hack has several levels of protection (ie: compression and encryption on the anti-ebay logo, several checks on file integrity, checksum, etc...), not to mention that I took advantage of a weakness present in ALL emulators, which I used for inserting data where you aren't allowed to and made the game virtually impossible to load without my intro code (ie: if you try running the main game directly, it won't work correctly in a certain place).

I guess all these methods should be more than enough for preventing noobs and ebay lamers from hacking your translations/hacks (and sell them illegally).
insectduel
Guest
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2007, 02:11:21 pm »

I see something like that in SMB1. They use the NES header to lock up the ROM using SMB utility. I alway end up opening one up in YY-SMB2 Patches and encode the rest myself.
dormento
Guest
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2007, 02:24:51 pm »

FFHackster also refuses to open an FF1 ROM that has been "locked". You can undo the protection very easily in a hex editor, but I guess it's good to stop newbies fooling around, editing one or two strings, and passing your stuff as theirs.
Kitsune Sniper
Guest
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2007, 04:22:18 pm »

Quote from: Gemini on March 05, 2007, 04:59:33 am
Stuff

I asked a few people to help me with title screens and anti-eBay stuff for a few of my games.

I have no intention of letting idiots profit off the work of all the translators that helped me out.
Gemini
Guest
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2007, 04:35:06 pm »

Quote from: Kitsune Sniper on March 05, 2007, 04:22:18 pm
I have no intention of letting idiots profit off the work of all the translators that helped me out.
Same here, that's why I'm inserting some many protection routines in my hacks (not to mention people using my work without asking for permission >_<").
Cyberman
Guest
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2007, 07:07:20 pm »

I remember a person I know who is a professional artist for fantasy books finding out some people were using her copyrighted works for some strange religious book they were selling on Ebay (religion left out for good a reason).  She spoke with Ebay they removed it.  Still she locked her portrait website (it had lots of cool drawings too) as a consequence.

In any case am anti hack tool set might be something people could use no?

Cyb
Disch
Guest
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2007, 09:12:38 pm »

I find it rather ironic and completely hypocritical that hackers complain/worry about people hacking their work.  Not to mention that is the completely opposite of what the hacking community should be standing for.  IE:  the sharing and free distribution of games/information.  I can't help but wonder what is going through people's minds when they take information found by others, tools built by others, and use them to modify a game made by others -- then turn around and pass it out with fears of it being subjected to the same treatment.

ROM hacking has come as far as it has only because people have been willing to share and contribute their work towards others' goals.  If you can't share that concept --- if you can only take and not give --- you're not going to get any of my sympathy  =P


Quote from: Euclid on March 05, 2007, 02:58:41 am
My only concern with anti-hacking tools is just to make sure people can't open it up in an editor and look at everything (ie spoilers).

That was actually my concern when I implimented the ghetto "protection" feature in Hackster (hence the message you get when you try to open a "protected" ROM).  As has been mentioned it's easily bypassable.

Though my concern for that now isn't near what it was in the past.  If people have more fun cheating -- let 'em cheat!  If I could go back in time I'd probably remove that protection thing.

Quote from: Cyberman on March 04, 2007, 11:58:54 pm
If you really are concerned about your hack being 'claimed' by some lazy twit ...

I actually hear about this concern a lot.  In fact I remember getting into a debate with someone on acmlm's who considered this a serious problem.  But really....  how often does this happen?  Has it ever happened?  I can't recall a single time, myself.  And even if it were to happen, ROM hacking circles would flood with gossip and the "thief" would probably be alienated as a result.

I just don't see this as a reasonable concern.  Odds are better that you'll get hit by a bus than someone will steal your hack.


</somewhat of a tangent post>
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