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Author Topic: FF1 battle system  (Read 2 times)
Bregalad
Guest
« on: September 13, 2009, 12:22:56 pm »

Has anyone tried to hack FF1's battle system ? Very likely so considering how far FF1 has been hacked.

The 'GFFBH' FF1 Balance-Bugfix hack fixes many of my issues I had when playing FF1 : It makes the game faster paced, allow running, removes supid noise when talking to people, and make the game more balanced, with less power-levelling needed but still not ridiculously easy (altough I still haven't got very far so I can't really tell, I can only trust the authors), removes graphical border in battle, reduce flashes, and make the text on a blue BG.

Now those changes makes the game a lot more enjoyable for a gamer used to "modern" standard but that still want to play the original. I tough about taking it one step further and hacking the battle engine, to replace the old round-based battle system by FF10-style CTB, or even FF4-FF9 style ATB.
Currently the battle system should be somewhat like that :
- Ask the  player to enter commands for 4 heroes, memorize them
- CPU somehow chose the commands for enemies
- Each protagonist/antagonist get it's turn randomly (or is speed/level taken in account ?), where it's command is executed.

It's also a possibility that enemies decide their command on the fly instead of at the start of the room, it doesn't really matter. The new CTB system would be like that :
- Each protagonist/antagonist get it's 8-bit "time counter" (or more bits ? don't know).
- The CPU does "time counter += character speed", and if it overflows, the hero or enemy get a turn, and execute it immediately (effectively removing the "inefective" problem)
- When casting magic, some trick is used to make the time longer (optional)

Another option, more complicated, would be to go the ATB way :
- Each protagonist/antagonist get it's 16-bit "time jauge"
- The CPU does "time counter += character speed" at regular short intervals, when overflows the jauge is full and the enemy attacks or the player can get a trun
- The battle system still runs when the attack selection window is opened (that's the tricky part)
- When casting magic there is some delay before it's effectively casted (that's the second tricky part). It doesn't remove the "innefective" problem.

Of course in both cases the core battle system would have to be rewritten, the handling of the status/information boxes too, but the routine it casts for attacks, graphics, etc.. would still be the same.

Does this sounds doable ? Would anyone actually enjoy seeing this ? Thanks for reading this huge post.
Sliver X
Guest
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2009, 01:46:59 pm »

I thought you hated ROM hacking/hacks.
Bregalad
Guest
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2009, 02:46:54 pm »

No not really. It if was about something I said like 3 or 4 years ago, I guess I meant I hated that some people hacked games and called it "their" game when it fact it wasnt. And/or that I hate when roms distributed are hacked instead of clean roms.

Here the point would be to improve FF1 while still being entierely FF1.
Vanya
Guest
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2009, 05:56:54 pm »

It's an interesting proposition, but it would probably be better to start small and work your way up. Maybe begin by making the game display a number pop up over the target when damage is done. This alone would speed things up by replacing all the text that normally is displayed. Another basic hack that would improve the game play would be to make it re-target when the player's original target is killed. Actually, I always thought it would be cool if there was a chance of re targeting based on the character's intelligence.
From here you could pick certain features of the other games that you'd like to implement.

On a side note one of the things that would be great is to also revamp the inventory & equipment systems the game uses.
Ryusui
Guest
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2009, 10:35:23 pm »

In short: your very first objective should be to try and make FF1's battle system function identically to the version used in the modern remake versions (Origins, Dawn of Souls, Anniversary Edition...I'd mention the Wonderswan and cell phone versions that started it all, but we didn't get those ^_^;).
Bregalad
Guest
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2009, 05:55:10 am »

Well then why not play directly Dawn of souls ?

Yes the number pop up over the character would be a great features, as well as enemy flickering colors when they attack (so you know WHICH one attacks you).
The problem is that the new code have to be smaller than the old, and you have to use only variable that you can use, if you don't want to end up with conflicts. This is what would make it hard.
Lindblum
Guest
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2009, 08:34:50 am »

I always wanted to make a patch to allow the LIFE spells to be used in battle.  These days I'm too distracted from romhacking.
Shimok
Guest
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2009, 02:20:07 pm »

Quote from: Lindblum on September 14, 2009, 08:34:50 am
I always wanted to make a patch to allow the LIFE spells to be used in battle.  These days I'm too distracted from romhacking.

Funny you should mention that.  On the GameFAQs message board, AstralEsper has been working on that very fix although she has run into some small issues.
Bond697
Guest
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2009, 05:43:13 pm »

speaking of,  she has a couple of nice threads going over there:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=522595&topic=45575058

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=522595&topic=50954131

she sent out the latest version of her patch (.987 - ff rebalanced) in mid-august, and it's quite nice to play. 
Vanya
Guest
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2009, 09:18:55 pm »

Holy crap! I never knew there were so many bugs in FF1. Nasir really didn't get much time to test the code or just sucks at programming.
BRPXQZME
Guest
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2009, 09:24:53 pm »

Nasir was a pretty decent coder. It’s just that FF1 gets a lot more scrutiny than it was ever intended to get.
Vanya
Guest
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2009, 01:08:22 pm »

I respectfully disagree given the large amount of data that is loaded into RAM but never used to calculate anything or the stats that characters have on the ROM but are never even loaded into memory at all. This was definitely a rush job.
Dragonsbrethren
Guest
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2009, 01:12:54 pm »

And that makes him a bad coder? If anything, the fact that the game was rushed, but still turned out playable, with no game-breaking flaws just proves the opposite. I've played games that were so broken that they were completely unenjoyable; Final Fantasy and Nasir's code certainly doesn't belong in that list.
BRPXQZME
Guest
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2009, 01:50:52 pm »

Look, back in the day, if there was some new and cool technique on the Apple II, there was a darn good chance Nasir Gebelli had something to do with it. One stinker doth not a bad coder make, and considering the story behind FF1, there was really no room for pouring in tons of quality.
Deathlike2
Guest
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2009, 09:08:48 am »

Quote from: Vanya on September 14, 2009, 09:18:55 pm
Holy crap! I never knew there were so many bugs in FF1. Nasir really didn't get much time to test the code or just sucks at programming.

I dunno... when compared to today's games where crashing or massive slowdowns are inevitable, it's more impressive that nothing horribly goes wrong in this game.

The game didn't expect to go far in the first place, but its own popularity despite these issues allowed this series to continue.
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