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Topic: Burning Playstation XA movie files - no audio when played on actual hardware? (Read 2 times)
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slowbeef
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« on: February 15, 2009, 03:06:58 pm » |
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I'm working on Policenauts and we're mostly where we want to be, in terms of text translation/reinsertion and graphical modifications. The game begins with one XA movie file of the Konami Logo walking across the screen along with a little tune. Once I build my new translated ISO, it works fine in an emulator - but when burned to a CD and put in an actual Playstation, apparently, the video plays without accompanying audio. This behavior is also true if burned to CD and played in an emulator off of the CD drive (as opposed to the ISO). Also, other movies in the game (which are not XA-type) play fine on either hardware or emulator. I don't personally have any hardware (right now) to play the game, so I'm currently reliant on other members of the team - who are not geographically close to me - to take my uploaded builds, burn them, and play in the Playstation itself. I'm currently building the ISO with buildcd and Revenge of Strip ISO as per Cless's PSX doc, but while he has instructions for how to specially rip an XA movie file, there doesn't seem to be anything in the document about writing them back to disc in any sort of special way. I've searched here, but I can't find any topics about a similar problem. This is the relevant portion of my CTI file: File VZ003XA.STR
XASource PCCD1\\VZ003XA.STR
EndFile
Is there anything else I should add or specify in order to make sure it burns correctly? I'm a bit in the dark on this and I didn't want to go out and buy new hardware to play it if I didn't have to, so I was kind of hoping this is a one-off thing, or I have my CTI file wrong. Or something. Any help would be appreciated! |
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Tauwasser
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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2009, 03:10:15 pm » |
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Hmm, sorry, not familiar with ISOs for PSX at all. However, I recall retail CDs with audio and "extra bonus data" have the audio and the data tracks seperated and have usually the same files in audio and data tracks plus whatever extra there is on the data track. Maybe you only burn a data track? Like, when you rip the original cd, do you see audio and data track with tools like nero?
cYa,
Tauwasser
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slowbeef
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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2009, 03:17:57 pm » |
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Thanks for the speedy reply, Tauwasser!
Both discs (it's a two-disc game and it's the same problem on both discs) appear to be straight data CDs (i.e. no audio tracks when opened in a CD-player) and the movie file itself appears in the root directory of the disc, when explored in DOS or Windows Explorer.
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Tauwasser
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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2009, 03:22:41 pm » |
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So have you mounted the disc with daemon tools etc. already? That way, we could conclude where the error is more clearly. I also heard about "sub channel data" or something. Pretty much that is supposed to be data that is before the actual first (or zeroth?) sector begins and can contain hidden/crucial info for a game? I'm not experienced with this though..
Basically, if your image should work when mounted, then it is surely a sign that the burn proccess is killing whatever data there is extra in the iso.
cYa,
Tauwasser
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slowbeef
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2009, 03:42:04 pm » |
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Yep, I was able to mount the ISO in DAEMON Tools, and the opening FMV (the logo) had perfect audio and the rest of the game seemed fine.
So, I guess from what you're saying I can conclude the problem is actually in the burning process then? Hmm. Well, I guess it's good to know it's not my fault!
I'll do some reading up on burning PS1 games and see if maybe I can identify what they're doing wrong in burning. Thanks!
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Kitsune Sniper
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2009, 04:22:21 pm » |
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Try telling them to burn the CD at the slowest speed possible.
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Tauwasser
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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2009, 05:12:55 pm » |
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Well, you could always ask the testers to get a full iso of the disk and then compare the iso files. If it's something that gets neglected while burning, then it's gonna show up. Also, please be sure to tell us what the problem was and how to resolve it when done. I'm telling you this, because you have a low post count, so maybe you'll "move on" after this has resolved or something, no offense intended.
cYa,
Tauwasser
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Lleu
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2009, 07:35:17 pm » |
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I also heard about "sub channel data" or something. Pretty much that is supposed to be data that is before the actual first (or zeroth?) sector begins and can contain hidden/crucial info for a game?
Nope. Subchannel data is distributed along the entire disk. Here's a reference for you and an alternative explanation. Each of the 8 channels has a known purpose, such as although some cd protection systems use all of the channels. CDs always have 2352 bytes per sector, plus subcode channels. Commonly ISO files store the 2048 bytes of user data. "Raw" files (like some BIN or IMG files) have all 2352 bytes per sector and exclude the subchannel data. The additional bytes may be used for ECC and synchronization or for more user data, depending on the format of the disc ( useful link). Adding in the subchannel data would give you 2448 bytes per sector. This is the "Raw96" or "Raw+96" mode used in some recording software. Do you know if the image file that you're building contains only user data? |
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slowbeef
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2009, 08:12:49 pm » |
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Okay, I'm able to replicate the problem by burning to CD-R at maximum speed and trying to play in the emulator via the actual CD drive. According to Alcohol 120, the minimum speed I can burn at is 10x, so I guess I'll give that a shot and see if it helps any? Do you know if the image file that you're building contains only user data?
Not really sure what you mean - user data is 2048 bytes per frame? I thought all PSX games were 2352 bytes? With stripiso I'm burning 2352 bytes per sector, and the only "special" file that I know of is the XA movie. There's no audio tracks on the CD that I'm aware of - it just seems like a regular data CD, otherwise. Sorry if that's a little unclear - is there any way I can verify to be sure? |
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KingMike
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2009, 08:52:37 pm » |
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because you have a low post count,
He's probably busy making retsuprays.  |
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slowbeef
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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2009, 09:53:44 pm » |
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I used a program called ImgBurn to force it to 4x and got someone to verify that yes, it does work in hardware now (he used 1x speed, actually). ImgBurn apparently is a good work around if your CD/DVD burner won't do the slower speeds. So at 1x speed, the audio's back now on the disc. Thank you all very much for this! That's one less bug on the road to beta. He's probably busy making retsuprays. Hey, a guy can't assembly program with all his spare time, ya know. |
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Lleu
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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2009, 10:09:47 pm » |
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Okay, I'm able to replicate the problem by burning to CD-R at maximum speed and trying to play in the emulator via the actual CD drive. According to Alcohol 120, the minimum speed I can burn at is 10x, so I guess I'll give that a shot and see if it helps any? Do you know if the image file that you're building contains only user data?
Not really sure what you mean - user data is 2048 bytes per frame? I thought all PSX games were 2352 bytes? With stripiso I'm burning 2352 bytes per sector, and the only "special" file that I know of is the XA movie. There's no audio tracks on the CD that I'm aware of - it just seems like a regular data CD, otherwise. Sorry if that's a little unclear - is there any way I can verify to be sure? I'm inclined to agree that PSX games are Mode2/XA. Mode2 is 2352 bytes a sector, according to one of the links in there. XA repurposes some of those bytes to be more suitable for data. I think there's still more than 2048 bytes per sector, though. Flipping through "thepsxdoc2.txt" by Cless, it says the file should be output as a 2352 ISO file. So that clarifies that question. He also talks about how to add XA files to the disc. However, all he does is reference his own CTI file that he uses for Tales of Phantasia and asks you to note the difference. ( Download his buildcd.zip with the CTI file here). Looking at the CTI, it seems that normal files are added like this: File DATA.BIN;1
XAFileAttributes Form1 Data
Source D:\\TOPPSX\\BUILDGME\\DAT\\DATA.BIN
EndFile while XA files are added like this: File XAM.BIN;1
XASource D:\\TOPPSX\\BUILDGME\\DAT\\XAM.BIN
EndFile Probably since standard files won't be using the same a mount of bytes in a sector as the XA files. It seems like you just fixed the issue, but I figured that maybe the information might be helpful for future referene. |
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Tauwasser
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« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2009, 10:53:46 pm » |
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So how is burning at slower speed fixing the issue? Is burn hardware really so unreliable as to not get it right with 10x+?
cYa,
Tauwasser
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akadewboy
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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2009, 12:49:00 am » |
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Quality of the CDr, quality of the CD burner, and quality of the PS1's laser drive are all a contributing factor. A slow burning speed usually results in a better darkening of the CDr's dye. If the dye isn't dark enough then the laser wont be completely absorbed (or reflected correctly) and you'll get reading errors, which can be bad when you are trying to stream data uninterrupted. This article is great to understand how CDrs work and how they are so much different from a normal pressed CD: http://www.howstuffworks.com/cd-burner.htm/printableAfter reading that you'll definitely realize how much of a miracle it is that CDrs don't fail more often. Also I think the PS1 laser drive isn't very high quality. |
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« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 01:01:03 am by akadewboy »
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vx
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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2009, 03:09:10 am » |
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Quality of the CDr, quality of the CD burner, and quality of the PS1's laser drive are all a contributing factor. A slow burning speed usually results in a better darkening of the CDr's dye. If the dye isn't dark enough then the laser wont be completely absorbed (or reflected correctly) and you'll get reading errors, which can be bad when you are trying to stream data uninterrupted. This article is great to understand how CDrs work and how they are so much different from a normal pressed CD: http://www.howstuffworks.com/cd-burner.htm/printableAfter reading that you'll definitely realize how much of a miracle it is that CDrs don't fail more often. Also I think the PS1 laser drive isn't very high quality. I agree 100% by my experince, lots of trial and error etc. I will warn you that CDfreaks put out some report discrediting this claiming that faster speeds were better, I do NOT agree as it defines logic and how data is written. So you will hear mixed opinions w/ this (like w/ everything else) but good quality media + good quality burner + slow speed has always never failed me or thousands of others.  |
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