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Topic: Secret of Mana Re-translation? (Read 2 times)
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Nightcrawler
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« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2008, 02:32:15 pm » |
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Deathlike2
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« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2008, 02:38:43 pm » |
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I would if I knew Japanese, or how to hack roms for that matter. Not knowing how to do either one myself is why I thought I would ask here if anyone had attempted it or thought there was enough interest that it might be attempted in the future. I guess it's just a matter of whether anyone with the necessary skills ever feels like doing it. Still, I'm surprised that it's been done with games like Chrono Trigger but not with Secret of Mana (after all, someone above mentioned that CT and SoM are equally in need of re-translation, so if the need is small, why bother with Ct either? I realize Chrono Trigger is very popular, but so is SoM.)
Obviously you didn't understand my CT-FF2(SNES) translation reference. FF4 needed a translation badly, since FF2 (SNES) completely lacking in terms of translation. CT's official English translation is fine by many standards. Those that are nitpicky are doing retranslations.. without much effort because someone actually wrote an editor for the game. SOM is not getting the same attention, not because it isn't popular, but rather it being relatively buggy for the most part. The only major gameplay hack (that wasn't FuSoYa's hack) was done by masterflow, but that was only to change enemy/monster/spell data in the game. It's hard to see an interest given that story-wise that these differences probably don't add up significantly as other games. A weak dialog coupled with a lack of space for it hasn't gotten much interest by others. |
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SpiffSpoo
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« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2008, 03:59:03 pm » |
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By the stuff that was cut, does he mean just the story, or whole sections of the game? Because I remember hearing that there was suppose to be more to the game either in an add-on with the disk-system, or that the game was dropped from the disk system and then released on the original SNES with some of the game cut. This can be seen a little when you get flammie and start doing the "quests" for Sage Loch, as you just go from place to place and the story slows down a lot. Plus what happened to the last sword orb?
And I am not sure if this is related or not, but when compared to Seiken Densetsu 3 Dryad seems to be more like a mini mana tree with her mana magic than a regular spirit, she doesn't have poison bubble or leaf sword in SOM like from SD3. And the fact that she is on the lost continent instead of a forest or the pure land is pretty strange too, considering she is supposed to be the tree spirit and not the spirit of mana. This doesn't seem to be coherent as well, and the story in the English version doesn't explain that very well anyways. Plus, what happened to the last sword orb?
So, getting a retranslation might reveal some of these mysteries, but that remains to be seen. Considering so many other games have been retranslated already and to my knowledge SoM hasn't, this wouldn't be a bad project to take up anyways.
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Kagemusha
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« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2008, 04:05:51 pm » |
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Why not ask FuSoYa if he'd be willing to insert a retranslated script into his hack. Then all you'd have to do is translate the japanese script.
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thoreaubred
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« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2008, 05:44:31 pm » |
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So first a translator would have to step forward and volunteer to translate the text.
It is interesting that FuSoYa bothered to take the time replacing the whole text of the game but chose to rewrite it himself rather than translate (or get someone else to translate) the Japanese text. If you're going to take all that time, might as well make it a real translation.
Is there no one out there with the necessary translation skills who is willing to do this?
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Deathlike2
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« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2008, 05:56:52 pm » |
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It is interesting that FuSoYa bothered to take the time replacing the whole text of the game but chose to rewrite it himself rather than translate (or get someone else to translate) the Japanese text. If you're going to take all that time, might as well make it a real translation.
Um, that's not his perrogative, so it is his choice. The main point (probably) was to replace the not-so-great font that existed. To do the additional script editing, ROM expansion had to be done (which was primarily Woosley's point in his interview about script space). |
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thoreaubred
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« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2008, 09:06:48 pm » |
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But I think Pennywise's point is that if FuSoYa's additional text fits, it could be replaced with an actual translation which would also fit.
And of course what FuSoYa does/did is entirely his prerogative, and I apologize if I seemed to suggest otherwise.
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DarknessSavior
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« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2008, 01:26:05 pm » |
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CT's official English translation is fine by many standards. Those that are nitpicky are doing retranslations.. without much effort because someone actually wrote an editor for the game.
Firstly, it's censorship. That's the main "nitpick" people have with the game. And stupid name changes ("Masamune" is a legendary sword maker, most swords he made carry that same name. It's NOT a broad sword. That's a small example). And the retranslation Suzaku and I are (slowly) working on will be all by hand. Everything from scratch, using the Japanese ROM. It will be many kinds of awesomeness, but because I'm not using pre-made tools to do so, it's going to take a few years to complete (since I actually have to learn to implement the types of things I want to do in the game). [/end rant] ~DS |
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kazuya
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« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2008, 03:38:15 pm » |
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About Secret of Mana for SNES CD, there was never any leaked version of it was there ? No actual pictures or anything of what was removed ?
Also, is that why the game is glitchy to hack, due to how they transfered it to cartridge ?
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« Last Edit: May 08, 2008, 03:46:15 pm by kazuya »
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SpiffSpoo
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« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2008, 04:23:06 pm » |
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I have no idea, but it might be part of the reason though.
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Deathlike2
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« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2008, 05:23:33 pm » |
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CT's official English translation is fine by many standards. Those that are nitpicky are doing retranslations.. without much effort because someone actually wrote an editor for the game.
Firstly, it's censorship. That's the main "nitpick" people have with the game. And stupid name changes ("Masamune" is a legendary sword maker, most swords he made carry that same name. It's NOT a broad sword. That's a small example). And the retranslation Suzaku and I are (slowly) working on will be all by hand. Everything from scratch, using the Japanese ROM. It will be many kinds of awesomeness, but because I'm not using pre-made tools to do so, it's going to take a few years to complete (since I actually have to learn to implement the types of things I want to do in the game). [/end rant] ~DS I don't want to get too OT on this, but CT was probably one of the least affected of the Square games from censorship. I personally don't think it is worth obsessing over names... the script is most important IMO, but I don't feel it needs that much retranslation as far as I understand it, so don't take it the wrong way. Note: AFAIK, there seems to be some slight omissions, but have no dramatic impact to the story.. and although I'd love them be added in, I'm not as interested (just like SOM). For the sake of reference, I cite RPGOne's FF6 translation. I didn't gain any new appreciation or understanding of it. I was definately appreciative of the technical effort that went into it, but the translation did nothing for me. My comment primarily aims at the "we will retranslate it because anyone can" group (referring to the use of the CT Editor exclusively anyways). I would like to think romhacking was the desire to do cool things, not just do translations and sometimes I get the feeling that these translations are only to feed one's opinion/agenda instead of any sort of actual (romhacking) work being done. It's not meant to be a slight on people who want to translate. It doesn't give the average person any tangible benefit. I honestly don't even like those threads/debate on the translations themselves. Is this clear? |
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« Last Edit: May 08, 2008, 06:06:36 pm by Deathlike2 »
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Maegra
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« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2008, 07:54:36 pm » |
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Even so, anyone who played SD3 would know that dialog was not the strength of the game. The same is true for SD2 (SOM).
Extremely true for SD2, atleast 3 had something more than: 'Oh no, monsters appeared!' *fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight* Although it definitely felt like the person doing the overall plot arc of SD# got overworked or dropped the ball, or may have just not cared. their definitely [IMO] is no excuse why things needed to go sour as soon as you get the third party member. And SD2's battle system was funner. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 needs a retrans, I could just feel the censored sexual tension between Sonic and Miles. |
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BRPXQZME
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« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2008, 08:01:08 pm » |
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Alas, for Sonic’s heart lies in another place. The lamp post has saved his life one too many times....
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Karatorian
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« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2008, 08:34:42 pm » |
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I would if I knew Japanese, or how to hack roms for that matter. Well, with the dedicated translation community here, you could probably find a translator if you went ahead with the project. Not having any ROM hacking skills is a different matter. Generally, if you want to start a translation (or re-traslation) project, it's expected that you can provide at least one half of the usual "hacker + translator" equations. Asking others to do the work for you is pretty frowned apon here. (Although there is a dedicated thread on the subject, I don't think it's taken very seriously or resutls in many (any?) projects). Some people would tell you the same thing in much harsher terms, but that's basically how things are expected around here. That said, I'm confident that anyone can learn to ROM hack. (Of course, anyone could proably learn Japanese as well, but that'd be a lot harder...) There are a lot of resources for newbies around here. (See the list of required reading Nightcrawler posted above.) If you really want to see this project done, I suggest you start learning to hack the SNES. If you manage to locate the font graphics, script data, text drawing routine, etc. and get the infrastructure set up for the translation, people will take your project a lot more seriously. Due to the already existing English version, you will have some of the work done for you. I suggest you pursue two courses of action. Firstly, figure out how to extract the script from the Japanese version. Then, figure out how to insert a new script into the English version of the ROM. You should also figure out some method of inserting a larger script than the original, as it may be required. (You may also want to document any non-script changes between the two, if there are any.) Once you get that far, then it's only a matter of finding a translator. Best of luck. |
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thoreaubred
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« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2008, 02:30:24 am » |
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In response to the last post:
I didn't mean to seem like I was trying to officially propose a project and recruit people to work on it. I was merely asking if it had been done, or if anyone knew of any plans for it to be done in the future. If asking mere questions like that is considered bad etiquette here, I apologize. As for learning to hack roms myself, I simply have too many other interests I'm already involved in, and don't have the time. Again, I wasn't trying to get anyone to do any work for me personally, but merely asking out of curiosity if anyone had ever done it or was planning to do it.
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