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Author Topic: Order of Symbols in Japanese Alphabet  (Read 1517 times)
RadioShadow
Guest
« on: December 15, 2007, 06:50:58 pm »

Not sure if this is the right place to put this, if it isn't, feel free to move it.

Anyway, I'm in the processes of ripping the font from Advance Wars Dual Strike (and Famicom Wars DS) to be include in this master graphics rip file.  The only problem is, i can't find a site mention the symbols (or alphabet maybe a better word) that the Japanese use.  I'm, aware that they use three types of alphabet but unsure what is the best way to layout the symbols/letters used in the Japanese language.

Just to confirm, I don't need any help in ripping the font, just knowing the symbols/letters used so I organise them in the correct fashion. 
YMI
Guest
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2007, 07:19:54 pm »

Those 'alphabet' are called hiragana (used for Japanese words, grammar, sentence structure) and katakana (used mostly for foreign words)

here is a complete list
http://www.saiga-jp.com/img/character/japanese_language/hiragana_katakana_list.gif
RyanfromScotland
Guest
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2007, 07:25:37 pm »

The poster I have in my room has them layed out differently, rotated clockwise 90 degrees so instead of reading

あ い う え お
か き く け こ
さ し す せ そ

it reads:

さ か あ
し き い
す く う
せ け え
そ こ お

But I think the first way seems to be more frequent or at least was the way in the 3 pictures I just looked at online.
YMI
Guest
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2007, 07:29:53 pm »

the second is the most frequent ... at least for Japanese.

it's certainly easier for Europeans to have them placed like roman letters (from left to right) if they are not used to the Japanese reading direction.

I learned them with the second way orientation (up to down, then right to left).
RyanfromScotland
Guest
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2007, 07:59:14 pm »

Hmm thought it might be since the poster I bought was from Japan and it was english google I used to find the pictures.
Kajitani-Eizan
Guest
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2007, 09:21:17 pm »

the order is the same either way; it's just that traditional japanese is read top to bottom, then right to left, while english and most european languages are read left to right, then top to bottom. obviously for things like computer text where it would be inconvenient to use the traditional japanese system, they've adopted the western reading direction.
RyanfromScotland
Guest
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2007, 09:05:42 am »

My thought was geared more towards tables though since that's what I'm looking at just now. If I was to make a table along the lines of:

01=あ 02=い  03=う  04=え  05=お
06=か  07=き  08=く  09=け  10=こ
11=さ  12=し  13=す  14=せ  15=そ

It would have far different results from:

01=さ 02=か  03=あ
04=し  05=き  06=い
07=す  08=く  09=う
10=せ 11=け  12=え
13=そ  14=こ  15=お

Although for the game I'm looking at that may be worth considering Smiley
RadioShadow
Guest
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2007, 05:20:43 pm »

Quote from: YMI on December 15, 2007, 07:19:54 pm
Those 'alphabet' are called hiragana (used for Japanese words, grammar, sentence structure) and katakana (used mostly for foreign words)

here is a complete list
http://www.saiga-jp.com/img/character/japanese_language/hiragana_katakana_list.gif

That graphic helps a lot.  Thanks!


Quote from: RyanfromScotland on December 15, 2007, 07:25:37 pm
The poster I have in my room has them layed out differently, rotated clockwise 90 degrees so instead of reading

あ い う え お
か き く け こ
さ し す せ そ

it reads:

さ か あ
し き い
す く う
せ け え
そ こ お

But I think the first way seems to be more frequent or at least was the way in the 3 pictures I just looked at online.

The first ways is used in a lot of games like Advance Wars Dual Strike, in western style. 

Text flows (read) left to right, start new line below, text flows (read) left to right. 


The traditional way Japanese usually display text is the second way, a perfect example being Ouendan 1 and 2:

Text flows from top to bottom, start next left to the left near top, text flows from top to bottom. 


Anyway, I can easily rip the katakana as it's the symbols used when entering a maps name.  Also, Advance Wars Dual Strike (Famicom Wars DS) uses uncompressed, one byte, half width symbols so I should have something like:

⦆    。    「    」    、    ・    ヲ    ァ    ィ    ゥ    ェ    ォ    ャ    ュ    ョ    ッ
ー    ア    イ    ウ    エ    オ    カ    キ    ク    ケ    コ    サ    シ    ス    セ    ソ
タ    チ    ツ    テ    ト    ナ    ニ    ヌ    ネ    ノ    ハ    ヒ    フ    ヘ    ホ    マ
ミ    ム    メ    モ    ヤ    ユ    ヨ    ラ    リ    ル    レ    ロ    ワ    ン    ゙    ゚

Of course, the above symbols appear in a similar order in the game. 




While looking at the hiragana symbols in AWDS, I notice a strange symbol on the bottom line, the one with a triangle on top of a I looking letter:



I can't see it in the hiragana alphabet anywhere.  Unless I'm looking in the wrong place. 
KaioShin
Guest
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2007, 05:21:44 pm »

That's a Kanji and no Hiragana
RyanfromScotland
Guest
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2007, 05:34:26 pm »

全 that one I think Smiley meaning all, whole, everything, every, entire, full, complete, overall, total. Well at least that's the deffination from an online dictionary, it probably means something completly different in context  Angry
RadioShadow
Guest
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2007, 05:37:37 pm »

Kanji, I forgot about that. 

How many Kanji letters are there?  I found this:



But I'm not sure if that's the kanji the Japanese use.  Plus I can't see that image in there. 


Quote from: RyanfromScotland on December 16, 2007, 05:34:26 pm
全 that one I think Smiley meaning all, whole, everything, every, entire, full, complete, overall, total. Well at least that's the deffination from an online dictionary, it probably means something completly different in context  Angry

That seems right.  From what I can gather looking at the English translation, the symbol in English just means 'all' and in the CO's descrition case,  fire-power boot for all units on plains. 

KaioShin
Guest
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2007, 05:38:24 pm »

There are several thousand.
RadioShadow
Guest
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2007, 05:43:49 pm »

Ouch.  Okay, I may have to actually dig through the rom and find them and see which ones were used. 

Crazy Japanese!
RyanfromScotland
Guest
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2007, 05:49:38 pm »

Hehe give us a min I'll type up the ones not on the picture above. (that's a joke btw)
RadioShadow
Guest
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2007, 06:07:21 pm »

Hehe! 

Well I found this site which contains all of them.... I think.

http://www.tepetaklak.com/kanjis/kanji_index_01.html

So wait, The Japanese have to remember 2135 Kanji symbols?  Or do they only use certain ones in their language?

I need to do a bit of a research and find how they are stored in roms.  But I'll get my head round that tomorrow. 
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