Strat, you can certainly code something that gets you what you want, but it would completely change what the rom/emulator is supposed to be (and frankly the emulator cannot be called an emulator by definition). It probably doesn't matter to you, but that is what it is.

Just don't bother asking emu devs for your idea to be implemented though. Otherwise, it would turn out something like UOSNES (which IIRC is just "a bunch of hacks which doesn't actually do any proper emulation").

Strat, sent you a private message. Hope you don't mind.


Alright, we won't call it an emulator. We won't use a format that is compatible with SNES emulators so as to not dillute the integrity of existing hardware, games and emulators. We can even pretend it's an actual standalone PC game, like those PSX SNES emulators with the FMV sequence openings did. Any other potential problems?

In a way, you're supporting one of my points.  You, a gamer, fail to see the distinction between gaming and emulation.  I, an emu developer, see a clear, bright line.

Of course I'm not saying they aren't games.  But I wouldn't put them in the same boat as PC or modern console games.


When was this about the hacker's level of knowledge?  I never said everyone that uses emulators should know how they function.  But people that hack ROMs should certainly be aware of the capabilities of the system (or at least, they should if they want to be any good).  Even with the changes byuu is mentioning, there would still be limitations... and a hacker would still have to be knowledgable in certain areas.


I never said it appealed to everyone.  It certainly appeals to many people, though, not just myself.


I understand your point of view.  In fact... I even said that in my post:



You obviously wouldn't fit into my above example, then.  Even though that may not be the appeal for you personally, many people really do love the retro style and feel.  So much so that homebrewers have even made modern PC games with such feel even though they are not restricted by hardware limitations.  Case in point:  Cave Story

But yes, I certainly see why you want this.  But you obviously don't see why I don't.


Erm... yes they are.  At least, most of them are.


Once again you're prooving you're more of a gaming fan than an emulation fan.  Perfect emulation of any system is a long way off (if it is even attainable at all).  NES/SNES emulators to this day cannot even run 100% of the games out there without hacks.  Everyday, new information about the systems are being uncovered.  There are so many tiny little quirks that so many games depend on in order to run.

Someone like myself can look at semi-modern popular emus like FCEU and point out specific examples of how they're already showing their age when compared to more modern emus.


I'm not claiming that would happen... but there's a whole extra layer of complication that happens when you do something like this.  Emulating the system is hard enough -- emulating a faux system with no guidepoint is even harder... and if it ever gets support in multiple emulators, its operation will likely differ between them.  Sort of like the "browser wars" last decade.

Something like this is a deturrant.  Rather than focusing on emulating, emulator authors begin focusing on making games flashey.  If that isn't detrimental I don't know what is.


I never meant to say there's something wrong with your view.  I'm just saying you're coming from another world, and bringing that world's ideas into this one.  And while those ideas make perfect sense and are great in that world, they don't really have the same place here.

It's more complicated than you may think.  Like I say... I definately see your side -- but you apparently can't see mine.

Disch, speaking for myself ... I can see your side of things. I'm just not following why the idea upsets you. Perhaps it's because I don't believe it will discourage the people who actually do care about accurate emulation. Por ejemple, I don't see Marty going, "Whoa! MP3 audio?? To hell with Nestopia ... time for Nesamp!"

Myself, I can share two separate desires at the same time, and see the advantages to both. No reason to give one up to work on the other. It is a matter of time for me, and that's why all my time goes toward the accuracy side of things (it is more important to me), but if I had more time, I wouldn't have much of a problem alternating between two separate forks like that.


Excluding special chips, which have about as much to do with the base SNES hardware as an MP3 decoder ... I'm one game away from that. One. And I can make a simple change that will make things no less accurate and fix that. But I just can't cheat like that. The right fix will require traversing a massive rabbit's hole that will make my emulator completely worthless to everyone, as it will require a 10GHz procesor to run. I can't figure it out now, because the solution relies on lots of other steps that are missing with our current-gen scanline renderers. It'd be like trying to figure out DMA bus sync timing before we had opcode cycles, let alone memory access speed differences, emulated at all. Such an awful position to be in ... maybe it would be fair to release one last version that fixes Uniracers, a sort of "global" hack, and then immediately move on to doing things the "right way" ... hmm.

You can't explain why, but you're opposed to the idea of giving more options to somebody who cares about enhanced graphics & sound. Now, do you see why, from my perspective, this sounds outlandish?


That's my problem with this thread. Why is there a debate at all? I didn't ask for this. I asked a simple question and got an answer. Then I asked a follow-up question and suddenly all hell breaks loose. Now I understand that you didn't mean it that way, but twice now you've said in a post in a condescending tone that I can't understand your point. Look ; I get you, ok? I know that to you, if the original way the SNES rendered a part of a game is 1+1=2, that you don't want an emulator to do 9+5-12=2. It's the same result. I care only about the result, whereas you care about how authentically it can be achieved.

But here's the deal... And I honestly can't write clearly a more straightforward way to illustrate this.

This is me : "Can we add music from a CD to a game?"

And I expect a "yes" or "no" with reasons as to why that is.

Instead, this is what I get ; a bunch of people saying "But then it's not accurate and blablablablablabalbla..." Fair enough. But please pay attention to my question. When did I ask "Would it be considered emulation anymore if we were to add CD music to a game?" No. Never. Consequently, after numerous posts by people obviously missing the point and who continue to hammer a point entirely irrelevant to this thread, this is me (lol!) -->  :banghead:

The name of the page is ROM *hacking!!!*  :laugh: So I come to a forum whose name indicates I could get info as to whether hacking the ROM to accomplish what *I* want. Unfortunately, instead of entertaining constructive conversation about the ways this could be done (even if nobody would ever do it), this thread with the help of a handful of people degenerated into debates about anything from hardware add-on to existential questions about emulation ethics.

Why? I politely requested we keep this on topic twice, yet you continue to argue against the mere existence of the question.

CaseCrash echoed my sentiments. Then a moderator summed it up and even mentioned "What is there to discuss?" as the topic kept derailing. Yet here we are more off-topic than ever. Before replying to this, just think for a total of 10 secs how would you feel if this were to happen to you. The minimum amount of respect that I asked for (more than once) is to remain on-topic.

PLEASE respect my wishes on this. I'm not asking for the moon and would honestly appreciate all the superficial debating (to this thread's topic anyway) be taken into another thread or via PM.

This is what I said "My dream is to use orchestrated versions of tunes I have on CD of the Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest games in SNES ROMs as opposed to the MIDI synth versions we're all used to." Hmmmmm,... that's ROM hacking. Then, I said the SNES isn't powerful enough for this, but perhaps by using an emulator, the music can be integrated into the ROMs. Again, ROM-hacking. Only after somebody told me the best way to do it would be via a mapper and having a seperated directory with the music in it did I ask if the emulator itself could be modded. It's all in the 1st post, so before misquoting me,...

You're funny. Because I'm essentially saying "stay on topic" and people here seem to have the weakest willpower to do just that and are belligerant & condescending in how what I want to do somehow seems to trample over their civil rights or something, I'm in the wrong. Man oh man... Guys... I didn't insult your mothers ; I asked to forgo the endless & pointless off-topic debate.

So much drama over such a simple question.

I think enhanced emulators with Graphics/Music packs are great ideas. Of course it's not accurate but if I want to play a game with better sounds on an emulator I may as well. I too came up with the idea for graphics packs as plugins for an enhanced emulator for specific games. When I presented the idea here it too was rejected by pretty much everyone like yours. Too bad I don't have the experience or the time to research how emulators work yet. I'm also hate looking at other peoples code. Some day when this gets done I bet it will catch on like wildfire. Instead of people going through the trouble to do hacked graphics and music they can do it that much easier. Of course only for PC but that's alright. That's what we have real rom hacking for.

This already sounds like a terrible idea, but you are far better off using RPGMaker or something to make this happen. It would take far too much work (if it wasn't already difficult to begin with) to modify a game in these terms. If you create a "specific game emulator", it probably wouldn't be as horrible sounding, but then you would still have to do enough research on the rom/game to know what the hell you are doing (which I doubt the op has any idea).