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Author Topic: Google Translate updated  (Read 2 times)
FinS
Guest
« on: November 19, 2009, 11:06:59 am »

The output from Google translator seems to be much more readable now but I don't now how accurate it is.  I hope it helps some of the projects here.

http://translate.google.com/
DarknessSavior
Guest
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2009, 02:18:04 pm »

Eh, it's not that great. It's neat that it translates as you type stuff out, but for Japanese, it's still pretty off.

For example, take the sentence 「日本語が話せる?」

This means "Can you speak Japanese?" (literally "Able to speak Japanese?").

The translator gives me "Speak Japanese?"

This is because in Japanese, often the subject of the sentence ("You", in this situation) is dropped. Normally, a person wouldn't name the person they're talking to in this sentence, unless of course it was the first thing you said to the person and you were in a crowd of people (thus, letting them know you were speaking to them and not someone else).

If I throw in something to make it LITERALLY say "Are you able to speak Japanese?" (「あなたは日本語が話せる」), the translator says "You speak Japanese?".

Still not quite there. >_>"";

~DS
BRPXQZME
Guest
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2009, 03:02:59 pm »

Google Translate runs on statistical machine translation, and while some outputs of this method are astonishingly natural, Google still apparently doesn’t have sufficient bilingual corpora for Japanese to match up with, say, its English–Spanish capabilities. The fact that the languages are different means that even more statistical inputs are necessary to get better results, too.
Psychlonic
Guest
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2009, 06:02:51 pm »

It can be enough to get a general idea of what's going on, but it will completely butcher any meaningful dialog or narrative. However, it's GREAT for navigating foreign websites.
FinS
Guest
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2009, 07:12:06 pm »

I use it to view Japanese sites too and all I know is that I can actually understand it now instead of trying to make a word game out of it.  Maybe I was too hopeful that it would actually be a useful tool for Japanese game hackers.
Orusaka
Guest
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2009, 02:23:09 pm »

Quote from: DarknessSavior on November 19, 2009, 02:18:04 pm
Eh, it's not that great. It's neat that it translates as you type stuff out, but for Japanese, it's still pretty off.

For example, take the sentence 「日本語が話せる?」

This means "Can you speak Japanese?" (literally "Able to speak Japanese?").

The translator gives me "Speak Japanese?"

This is because in Japanese, often the subject of the sentence ("You", in this situation) is dropped. Normally, a person wouldn't name the person they're talking to in this sentence, unless of course it was the first thing you said to the person and you were in a crowd of people (thus, letting them know you were speaking to them and not someone else).

If I throw in something to make it LITERALLY say "Are you able to speak Japanese?" (「あなたは日本語が話せる」), the translator says "You speak Japanese?".

Still not quite there. >_>"";

~DS

I played around with it for a bit, and I was really underwhelmed. A lot of stuff was really far off the mark. However, your particular problem with Nihongo ga hanseru? stems from the translator not taking kindly to informality and slang. I ran the "proper" phrase Nihongo ga hanseru n desu ka, and it came back as "Do you speak Japanese?", which is spot on. I found that generally I got way better results if I phrased things properly, and avoided all kinds of slang.

That said, I ran random sentences of interest from a script I'm working on for about an hour, and I mostly I got back incomprehensible stuff. In thruth, I ran sentences I assumed would bring issues, but the resulst were nevertheless alarmingly underwhelming. I can however see how it might be of use to people with aboslutely no knowledge of Japanese for very rudimentary sentences, but those with even the slightest understanding of grammar would probably be better off using some form of eletronic dictionary. As long as you can work out where words begin and end, and have some knowledge of what the particles do, you'll get far more out of using word processor with pop-up dictionary etc., than you'll get out of google translate. At least for now.
BRPXQZME
Guest
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2009, 02:39:45 pm »

Actually, what I’m hoping for is that they’ll add one of those ELIZA-type bots so that it gives snarky, irreverent/irrelevant commentary like “YEAH, OF COURSE I KNOW JAPANESE OTHERWISE THAT OPTION WOULDN’T BE THERE, ASS.”
KingMike
Guest
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2009, 03:31:43 pm »

You don't really want a sentient computer, do you? Wink
DarknessSavior
Guest
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2009, 03:32:23 pm »

Quote from: Orusaka on November 20, 2009, 02:23:09 pm
Quote from: DarknessSavior on November 19, 2009, 02:18:04 pm
Eh, it's not that great. It's neat that it translates as you type stuff out, but for Japanese, it's still pretty off.

For example, take the sentence 「日本語が話せる?」

This means "Can you speak Japanese?" (literally "Able to speak Japanese?").

The translator gives me "Speak Japanese?"

This is because in Japanese, often the subject of the sentence ("You", in this situation) is dropped. Normally, a person wouldn't name the person they're talking to in this sentence, unless of course it was the first thing you said to the person and you were in a crowd of people (thus, letting them know you were speaking to them and not someone else).

If I throw in something to make it LITERALLY say "Are you able to speak Japanese?" (「あなたは日本語が話せる」), the translator says "You speak Japanese?".

Still not quite there. >_>"";

~DS

I played around with it for a bit, and I was really underwhelmed. A lot of stuff was really far off the mark. However, your particular problem with Nihongo ga hanseru? stems from the translator not taking kindly to informality and slang. I ran the "proper" phrase Nihongo ga hanseru n desu ka, and it came back as "Do you speak Japanese?", which is spot on. I found that generally I got way better results if I phrased things properly, and avoided all kinds of slang.

That said, I ran random sentences of interest from a script I'm working on for about an hour, and I mostly I got back incomprehensible stuff. In thruth, I ran sentences I assumed would bring issues, but the resulst were nevertheless alarmingly underwhelming. I can however see how it might be of use to people with aboslutely no knowledge of Japanese for very rudimentary sentences, but those with even the slightest understanding of grammar would probably be better off using some form of eletronic dictionary. As long as you can work out where words begin and end, and have some knowledge of what the particles do, you'll get far more out of using word processor with pop-up dictionary etc., than you'll get out of google translate. At least for now.

Well, yeah, I admit I used short form. But it should still recognize it.

And actually the 'proper' way to ask that, would be 「日本語がはなせますか?」. When I threw that in, it gave me "Do you speak the Japanese?".

So it's still quite a ways off. But also, as was said, improved from many other ones.

~DS
Orusaka
Guest
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2009, 03:53:38 pm »

Quote from: DarknessSavior on November 20, 2009, 03:32:23 pm
Quote from: Orusaka on November 20, 2009, 02:23:09 pm
Quote from: DarknessSavior on November 19, 2009, 02:18:04 pm
Eh, it's not that great. It's neat that it translates as you type stuff out, but for Japanese, it's still pretty off.

For example, take the sentence 「日本語が話せる?」

This means "Can you speak Japanese?" (literally "Able to speak Japanese?").

The translator gives me "Speak Japanese?"

This is because in Japanese, often the subject of the sentence ("You", in this situation) is dropped. Normally, a person wouldn't name the person they're talking to in this sentence, unless of course it was the first thing you said to the person and you were in a crowd of people (thus, letting them know you were speaking to them and not someone else).

If I throw in something to make it LITERALLY say "Are you able to speak Japanese?" (「あなたは日本語が話せる」), the translator says "You speak Japanese?".

Still not quite there. >_>"";

~DS

I played around with it for a bit, and I was really underwhelmed. A lot of stuff was really far off the mark. However, your particular problem with Nihongo ga hanseru? stems from the translator not taking kindly to informality and slang. I ran the "proper" phrase Nihongo ga hanseru n desu ka, and it came back as "Do you speak Japanese?", which is spot on. I found that generally I got way better results if I phrased things properly, and avoided all kinds of slang.

That said, I ran random sentences of interest from a script I'm working on for about an hour, and I mostly I got back incomprehensible stuff. In thruth, I ran sentences I assumed would bring issues, but the resulst were nevertheless alarmingly underwhelming. I can however see how it might be of use to people with aboslutely no knowledge of Japanese for very rudimentary sentences, but those with even the slightest understanding of grammar would probably be better off using some form of eletronic dictionary. As long as you can work out where words begin and end, and have some knowledge of what the particles do, you'll get far more out of using word processor with pop-up dictionary etc., than you'll get out of google translate. At least for now.

Well, yeah, I admit I used short form. But it should still recognize it.

And actually the 'proper' way to ask that, would be 「日本語がはなせますか?」. When I threw that in, it gave me "Do you speak the Japanese?".

So it's still quite a ways off. But also, as was said, improved from many other ones.

~DS

Totally, I wasn't saying that it's not a major fault that it doesn't fare better with informal/short forms, just that it seems to be having a problem with it.

I'll also grant you the point that the proper/polite way of saying exactely what you said is indeed 「日本語が話せますか。」, however 「日本語が話せるんですか。」 is an equally good choice, and in my experience is the more likely variant, however my experiences could be off, I suppose. Both are polite choices, it all comes down to whether you need the 「ん」.
BRPXQZME
Guest
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2009, 05:59:16 pm »

Well, the one I hear most often is “日本語ができますか”.
Orusaka
Guest
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2009, 02:45:56 am »

Quote from: BRPXQZME on November 20, 2009, 05:59:16 pm
Well, the one I hear most often is “日本語ができますか”.

Sure, I meant more common between those two phrasings. If I can nominate others, by far the most common question I encountered was simply 「日本語喋る?」.
Paul Jensen
Guest
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2009, 01:55:07 am »

Don't forget, 日本語、大丈夫?  Wink
Normmatt
Guest
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2009, 04:39:10 am »

Quote from: DarknessSavior on November 19, 2009, 02:18:04 pm
Eh, it's not that great. It's neat that it translates as you type stuff out, but for Japanese, it's still pretty off.

For example, take the sentence 「日本語が話せる?」

This means "Can you speak Japanese?" (literally "Able to speak Japanese?").

The translator gives me "Speak Japanese?"

This is because in Japanese, often the subject of the sentence ("You", in this situation) is dropped. Normally, a person wouldn't name the person they're talking to in this sentence, unless of course it was the first thing you said to the person and you were in a crowd of people (thus, letting them know you were speaking to them and not someone else).

If I throw in something to make it LITERALLY say "Are you able to speak Japanese?" (「あなたは日本語が話せる」), the translator says "You speak Japanese?".

Still not quite there. >_>"";

~DS

http://www.ocn.ne.jp/translation/ translates that as "Can you speak Japanese?"
FinS
Guest
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2009, 09:04:06 pm »

I found another web translator that looks pretty good.  Its probably SMT also. I tried all the speak japanese questions and here is the output.  "You can release Japanese?" sounds strange but I wonder if that is the literal interpretation of it.
http://www.systranet.com/web

日本語が話せる?
You can speak Japanese?

あなたは日本語が話せる
You can speak Japanese

日本語がはなせますか?
You can release Japanese?

日本語が話せますか。
You can speak Japanese?

日本語が話せるんですか。
You can speak Japanese, it is?

日本語ができますか
Japanese is possible?

日本語喋る?
Japanese you talk?

日本語、大丈夫?
Japanese, all right?
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