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Topic: Translating CD-based games. (Read 2 times)
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worm
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« on: March 08, 2009, 01:19:16 pm » |
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First of all, thank you for providing such a valuable resource here. In the span of a day, I was able to go from nothing to rerouting pointers toward translated text in NES games thanks to the massive amount documents and utilities hosted on this site.
Now that I've gotten my feet wet, I'd like to jump into the water with translating CD-based games (Saturn, PSX) - unfortunately, there are very little resources here or anywhere on the net to act as a lifevest. This must be a testament to how difficult it is.
Is a knowledge of assembly hacking pretty much required for working with the majority of Saturn and PSX games out there?
Will I be able to view the fonts of these games with tile viewers?
Finally, is it possible to expand files like it is with <4MB SNES ROMs? If so, is there a limit, other than what the CD can hold?
Thanks for your time.
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KaioShin
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« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2009, 01:51:34 pm » |
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Is a knowledge of assembly hacking pretty much required for working with the majority of Saturn and PSX games out there?
It definitely helps a lot, but I have seen decent translations without it too. Without assembly you'll never get it to a level that it might be mistaken for a commercial release, but you can make a translation that is very usable. Will I be able to view the fonts of these games with tile viewers?
Unless it's compressed, yes you should. Some PSX games also use the font that is integrated into the PSX bios, so look out for that. Finally, is it possible to expand files like it is with <4MB SNES ROMs? If so, is there a limit, other than what the CD can hold?
Depends on the game. Can be very easy but also very hard. Many many games have custom data package formats. It'll be essential to get those reverse engineered, then you should be able to freely change file sizes. Because of this you'll most likely need some general programming skills somewhere along the way. |
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Penance
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« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2009, 03:22:14 pm » |
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Is a knowledge of assembly hacking pretty much required for working with the majority of Saturn and PSX games out there? It's not 100% needed but it certainly helps. You could just open the file up in a hex edittor providing you're using the appropriate table (if it's Japanese you'll probably be good to go with a standard SHIFT-JIS one, but that's just from expirience) and just edit away... |
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David Holmes
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« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2009, 07:16:42 pm » |
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Now that I've gotten my feet wet, I'd like to jump into the water with translating CD-based games (Saturn, PSX) - unfortunately, there are very little resources here or anywhere on the net to act as a lifevest. This must be a testament to how difficult it is.
I honestly wouldn't agree with that. I would say that the fact that there are fewer docs has more to do with the fact that people haven't been hacking CD-based games as long, and the fact that there's less demand for them due to more of the quality games being released in English officially these days. There are aspects that are harder, but there are also aspects that are easier. I'm working on a PSX game as my first project and while I'm finding there are some unique challenges, a lot of it is actually more familiar to someone with a background in computers because it's closer to what I'd find on a PC. Finally, is it possible to expand files like it is with <4MB SNES ROMs? If so, is there a limit, other than what the CD can hold?
In addition to what KaioShin said, it can be easier in a few ways if you don't have to resize anything, since you won't necessarily have to worry about rebuilding an ISO with support for XA files, etc. Check out Cless's document - it pretty much sums up the issues. That said, there are no technical limits, only software limits depending on how the game was made, none of which are insurmountable. |
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Next gen Cowboy
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« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2009, 07:21:14 pm » |
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Mountains may not be insurmountable, but some are very tall, treacherous, and would simply take far to much effort.
Of course that should never stop you.
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Piotyr
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« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2009, 09:21:53 pm » |
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Its good to see more psx translations seeing as most of the non translated snes and nes games are not that interesting. We have to move on someday no?
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Penance
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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2009, 11:03:39 am » |
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Its good to see more psx translations seeing as most of the non translated snes and nes games are not that interesting. We have to move on someday no?
Definatley. I fail to understand why so many people here devote their free time to hacking games that have been hacked since the dawn of time. It's not like anyone will want to play them. |
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I.S.T.
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« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2009, 11:23:57 am » |
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Its good to see more psx translations seeing as most of the non translated snes and nes games are not that interesting. We have to move on someday no?
Definatley. I fail to understand why so many people here devote their free time to hacking games that have been hacked since the dawn of time. It's not like anyone will want to play them.Obviously wrong. There are many people who don't bother playing translations, preferring new hacks of Mario, Sonic, etc. Have you ever been to the Sonic Retro forums? They're full of people like that. |
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Deathlike2
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« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2009, 11:42:49 am » |
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Its good to see more psx translations seeing as most of the non translated snes and nes games are not that interesting. We have to move on someday no?
Definatley. I fail to understand why so many people here devote their free time to hacking games that have been hacked since the dawn of time. It's not like anyone will want to play them. I think you're missing Piotyr's point about translations. If your response is to hacking in general, then you're sorely incorrect. Despite having hundreds and maybe thousands of Mario hacks (SMW, SMB1, SMB3, not so much SMB2 though), it's hard to find someone to that doesn't have their own crazy ideas for a hack. If your response is to translations, it helps having some sort of basic understanding with the most common and perhaps somewhat more simple consoles such as the NES, before even daring to think about hacking something like the PSX (which has its own sets of issues). However, when you see the number of mass retranslations that some games get (CT being near or at the top), I can see where that sentiment comes from. |
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Piotyr
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« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2009, 02:24:39 pm » |
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Well the reason people usually stick to snes and nes is as the op said, the wealth of information and documentation as well as the tools available. Its not just cd based systems that need love its others such as the wonderswan (Has some pretty good rpgs like an arc the lad game and the choaniki (Yes that choaniki) card rpg) and the various sega systems. Lets not forget pc engine. No ones tried translating the far east of eden games as far as I know and those look amazing! We as romhackers (And by we I mean you because I have the skills of a dead rabbit when it comes to hacking) need to move into new frontiers. There is still a ton of great old games that need work!  . |
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Penance
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« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2009, 02:35:52 pm » |
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If your response is to translations, it helps having some sort of basic understanding with the most common and perhaps somewhat more simple consoles such as the NES, before even daring to think about hacking something like the PSX (which has its own sets of issues). However, when you see the number of mass retranslations that some games get (CT being near or at the top), I can see where that sentiment comes from.
It's not completely vital though. I've never touched SNES in my life. Only done PS2/PSX and I'm fine with hacking them, I know how to, I know abit of MIPS R5900, I know how to deal with types of compression. People who say you need to know how to hack ancient consoles to be able to do bigger ones is quite incorrect. Either way, CD hacking isn't all that different from typical ROM hacking, except you're dealing with a file based system. |
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Deathlike2
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« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2009, 02:40:46 pm » |
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It's not completely vital though. I've never touched SNES in my life. Only done PS2/PSX and I'm fine with hacking them, I know how to, I know abit of MIPS R5900, I know how to deal with types of compression.
People who say you need to know how to hack ancient consoles to be able to do bigger ones is quite incorrect.
Either way, CD hacking isn't all that different from typical ROM hacking, except you're dealing with a file based system.
That's why I used the word "helps" since it's not a requirement. Not everyone is capable of diving into it... it takes a mindset that can properly comprehend it. |
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Penance
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« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2009, 02:43:24 pm » |
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Obviously hacking games using a file based system isn't the easiest thing in the world. If you've seen my Tales of Symphonia topic over in Personal Projects you'll see fully why I'm at a standstill with it. (I should stop devoting my time to it, need to focus on Tales of Rebirth more).
I agree that people benefit from knowing how to do ROM hacking first but I was just saying it's not completely necessary.
I apologise for misreading you're post.
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Sliver X
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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2009, 04:45:01 pm » |
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Its good to see more psx translations seeing as most of the non translated snes and nes games are not that interesting. We have to move on someday no?
First, there is no "we". Hackers fall into so many disparate groups of people and circles of interaction that it's crazy. That said, the "problem" with lack of later system hacking isn't something I particularly care about. I grew up with the NES/SNES/Geneis/Gameboy, and that's what I like to hack (Well, the NES at least). If I had any interest in hacking something else, I would. This seems to be the case with most people around my age (I'm pushing 30 now): We hack what we grew up with. So then, if hacking what you grew up with is a large part of what platforms you target, why aren't the younger hackers stepping up to the plate? There are like a dozen or so PSX and above hackers I know of, and that's about it. Surely my generation isn't the only one that was capable of writing documentation, creating utilities or hacks in general. So blame your peers. Or yourself for not doing something to progress later gen hacking. |
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Piotyr
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« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2009, 11:14:00 pm » |
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No need to be so hostile and there is a we in the fact its a community. Its like we the human race. We may not have the same goals or work on the same thing but we are still part of the same whole.
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