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Topic: Can Super Game Boy borders be extracted and edited? (Read 2 times)
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I.S.T.
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« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2008, 10:25:01 am » |
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an opcode accurate emulator is zsnes/snes9x.
What would you mean by "opcode accurate" emulator (just curious since I also tried my hand a bit at emulator programming when I was younger and even less skilled then I am today T_T I've been meaning to get back into it though)? That it doesn't emulate a load command as a store command? Or is it somehow related to Opcode timing? When I was trying to write one myself the timing was always the most difficult thing to handle. Maybe I approached the whole thing from a wrong angle. I heard that many less accurate emulator's practically don't emulate any timing at all or only very rudimentary. Well, I have no idea how that could work since at least on the platform I was looking at a ton of I/O things were tied to timing. How to trigger everything even roughly at the right time without any timing was beyond me back then. I haven't thought about the problem in years though, so I'm curious now that someone brough up the topic ^^ Also, why do people want a SGB emulator? There is nothing to it other than the borders and maybe 2 player support in a handful of games (I had Battle Arena Toshinden for GB which worked in versus with 2 controllers on SGB). All of this could be handled in a GB emu, and most do it too (haven't looked for that 2p feature yet though). byuu used to have a really good article about this up on his web site. It's long gone now.  I suck at describing things, especially concepts I can barely understand, so someone else who is actually intelligent is gonna have to explain that to you. Sorry. As for the SGB... There are some misconceptions about it. SGB games occasionally came with other enhancements, such as voices playing(Donkey Kong.), and in one case, an entirely different game(Space Invaders) that could only be accessed while running the game on an SGB. Also, there was a set of borders that came with the SGB, and could be used on any game. I don't believe any SGB emulator can do those. Plus, there's the palette options... Those were really cool. |
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KaioShin
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« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2008, 10:55:38 am » |
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Are you sure he said opcode accurate emulator and not opcode based emulator? That would make much more sense to me  SGB: I stand corrected. It would be interesting to see SGB emulation after all then. It would need a complete GB emulator within a SNES emulator though, so I don't think anyone is going to take the time for that. |
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reyvgm
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« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2008, 11:46:21 am » |
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I downloaded a few title editors and I managed to locate where the SGB borders are stored.
But they are (obviously) scrambled and with the wrong colors.
Having never used graphic editing programs, can someone explain to me how do I "extract" them or assemble them to how they should look?
I'm using Title Layer Pro.
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Kitsune Sniper
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« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2008, 01:51:27 pm » |
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P.S. Kit, why so mean to Rey?  Professional rivalry. *flashes MobyGames.com nametag* |
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I.S.T.
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« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2008, 01:58:42 pm » |
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SGB: I stand corrected. It would be interesting to see SGB emulation after all then. It would need a complete GB emulator within a SNES emulator though, so I don't think anyone is going to take the time for that.
Don't I fucking know it!! I'd kill for a real SGB emulator. |
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Disch
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« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2008, 02:10:09 pm » |
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I think what he means by "opcode accurate" is that the emulator emulates each opcode, then adjusts the timestamp (IE: it emulates the CPU one instruction at a time). This is faster but less accurate than "cycle accurate" emulators, which emulate the read/write/IO that occurs on each individual cycle of the instruction and updates timestamps between them (IE: it emulates one CPU cycle at a time -- a finer resolution than one instruction at a time)
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I.S.T.
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« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2008, 02:30:42 pm » |
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I think what he means by "opcode accurate" is that the emulator emulates each opcode, then adjusts the timestamp (IE: it emulates the CPU one instruction at a time). This is faster but less accurate than "cycle accurate" emulators, which emulate the read/write/IO that occurs on each individual cycle of the instruction and updates timestamps between them (IE: it emulates one CPU cycle at a time -- a finer resolution than one instruction at a time)
Correct. |
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KingMike
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« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2008, 03:23:07 pm » |
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I downloaded a few title editors and I managed to locate where the SGB borders are stored.
But they are (obviously) scrambled and with the wrong colors.
That's normal. Since the middle of a screen is the gameplay window, they wouldn't store the tiles there. Also, they likely wouldn't store duplicate tiles. And generally, tile-based consoles won't store the graphics in real colors. (4BPP graphics can only have 16 colors. The set of colors used is a palette, and is defined when the game runs.) |
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reyvgm
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« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2008, 03:46:57 pm » |
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Ah, I see. I guess I'll have to do it the slow and hard way.
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InVerse
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« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2008, 06:02:56 pm » |
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So, about the games that store the borders in an uncompressed form, is there a tool that lets one extract them without having to play the game?
If you're wanting to extract them as they appear on screen, you would likely have to code a custom extractor for each individual game. The few that I've actually looked at in the ROM don't store the border as a complete graphic. Most of them reuse tiles a lot and only store a single copy of the tile, so to "extract" the border, you'd have to find the tile map within the ROM and then code an extractor. In other words, it would probably be faster to just play through the game. Edit: Argh. I saw that this thread was two pages long when I went back in to read it, but apparently forgot to read the second page before responding with a redundant reply. |
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« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 06:09:25 pm by InVerse »
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Karatorian
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« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2008, 09:21:52 pm » |
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Also, why do people want a SGB emulator? I can't speak for them, because I'm not personally that interested in such a thing, but I suspect the reason is the same as one famous moutaineer gave for climbing everest: "Because it's there." Personally, I wouldn't care that much. An actuall SGB though, could perk my interest. I just really like the SNES as a system and the SGB was one of those odd-ball, but interesting products. |
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deespence2929
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« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2008, 09:35:06 pm » |
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some games had Super Gameboy specific features. Donkey kong had extra sound effects. Space Invaders had a whole new game. I think some games had multiplayer modes which could be played with a extra controler.
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tc
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« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2008, 03:43:17 am » |
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Correct. As I like to point out, an actual SGB unit has some features no emulator on the entire planet yet does.  Interestingly... SGB doesn't have 100% compatibility. A few things like the Mega Memory Card don't work. |
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« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 06:37:03 am by tc »
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KingMike
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« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2008, 08:46:45 am » |
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So I've heard SGB-enhanced games aren't region-free (can be played in a standard GB, but a SGB-enhanced game meant for a PAL SGB won't work in NTSC). Though the only game I've considered is Lolo, and that seems to be a bit expensive (when last I looked, importing the EU version was like $50+ for the cart shipped, and $70 for a complete copy. So I hear it's one of the rarer and more valuable GB games. Haven't looked for the Japanese version, but I hear the EU has more content, like extra levels.) |
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kuja killer
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« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2008, 01:19:08 pm » |
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Wow that sounds pretty cool. Never thought of that before about looking for SBG border graphics in a rom, so then i just tried that out with megaman 5 GB, and i just found the graphics for it. not compressed, but it is in the 4 BPP SNES format, and some of the colors i edit in yy-chr like for the metool, affect other tiles too when they're clearly purple or something, so it defintely uses more than 1 16-color pallete for this. http://www.a3share.com/members/1119/mm5sgb.PNGInteresting stuff. |
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