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Author Topic: Final Fantasy II GBA->FC  (Read 2 times)
TJF588
Guest
« on: May 28, 2008, 01:20:22 pm »

First post here, and hopefully not a folly-full one.

I am interested in using the official GBA/PSP American English translation of FINAL FANTASY II in a soft and/or hard patch of the Famicom ROM of the same game.

For a while now I've wondered why seemingly no effort has been made to simply take the most recent company-sanctioned translation of a game and either modifying it for, moidfying the game for, or merely copy+pasting it to its original (or intermediate) version(s).  Seeing a fan translation of the FC version in action, it looks like it should be reasonable to transfer the GBA's script into this supposed classic (perhaps making a few minor changes, such as Life -> Raise, as par the rest of the modern translations).

Could anyone here list off the things I'd need to do to see this realized (most likely in-site links to appropriate FAQs or other documentation)?
DarknessSavior
Guest
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2008, 01:51:50 pm »

Well, first off, there's this:

The Newbie Package of REQUIRED Material

ROMHacking.net FAQ: You ask, we answer!
ROMHacking.net Getting Started Section: Newbies Go HERE!
ROMHacking.net Documents Section!
How to ask questions the smart way.
On the Essence of ROM Hacking

Now, what you'd need to do:

- Make a table for the GBA version of the game.
- Dump the script using romjuice or other appropriate text-dumping software.
- Make a table for the NES/FC version.
- Then you'd be stuck typing it in by hand, because I'm sure that reinserting it would probably lead to some issues. Mostly due to lack of space.

Good luck,

~DS
RedComet
Guest
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2008, 01:56:33 pm »

Totally off-topic question, but have you ever been to Kentucky? You look like someone I went to high school with. :huh:
KaioShin
Guest
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2008, 02:00:28 pm »

Quote from: TJF588 on May 28, 2008, 01:20:22 pm
For a while now I've wondered why seemingly no effort has been made to simply take the most recent company-sanctioned translation of a game and either modifying it for, moidfying the game for, or merely copy+pasting it to its original (or intermediate) version(s).

Because it's NOT just copy and pasting. It's as much work as a complete translation from scratch hacking wise. Waste of time.
akadewboy
Guest
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2008, 03:08:11 pm »

You also will probably run out of space. The thing about NES games that developers have always struggled with is the lack of space for an English translation. (Japanese sentences usually take up less space than English sentences). Many translations had to be butchered and shortened because of this.

GBA carts are huge compared to NES carts, so there's almost always enough space for an awesome English script in GBA games.
KingMike
Guest
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2008, 08:28:26 pm »

Not to mention there was a story somewhere they couldn't even fit everything they wanted in Japanese, let alone English.
(it'd be possible but difficult to expand the ROM. As you'd need to know ASM to use the space.)
Deathlike2
Guest
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2008, 09:08:35 pm »

You will end up having to implement some form of compression to boot.

In sum, it's not a simple "copy+paste" job that people think it is.
TJF588
Guest
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2008, 10:58:47 am »

Thanks for the replies, guys.  I didn't quite mean a full-force Ctrl+C/Ctrl+P, but the idea that one could just plop things into their equivalent places.  With how you've responded, I still have much to learn about.  I prolly won't get around to looking into these processes until tomorrow (my sis's graduation is later today), but I'm quite fine with typing things in by hand.  ASM... would that also enable the modification of monospace to [term for not-monospace]?  I'm not too exposed, but I'm of the mind that these games were defaulted to monospace, which cut down on how much hired translators could push in.  Oh, I don't speak Japanese, so I was thinking I might end up using an existing translation to match up what I can fit of the GBA one, however that'd come to be.

And, no, I've never been to Kentucky (though I do like some KFC-brand).
UglyJoe
Guest
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2008, 11:32:30 am »

Quote from: TJF588 on May 29, 2008, 10:58:47 am
Ctrl+C/Ctrl+P

I think you'll find Ctrl+V works a lot better  Grin

Quote from: TJF588 on May 29, 2008, 10:58:47 am
ASM... would that also enable the modification of monospace to [term for not-monospace]?  I'm not too exposed, but I'm of the mind that these games were defaulted to monospace, which cut down on how much hired translators could push in.

Another term for monospace is fixed-width.  [term for not-monospace], thus, is variable-width.  What you're describing is a variable width font (VWF) hack.  These are far more common in SNES games, although not impossible to pull off on an NES.   VWF is very helpful for cramming more text into menus and item lists.  For character dialogue, it's not as important (although certainly a whole lot more readable/prettier), as you can usually allow a character to use up as many speech boxes as they need.
Ryusui
Guest
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2008, 11:50:39 am »

Quote from: UglyJoe on May 29, 2008, 11:32:30 am
Another term for monospace is fixed-width.  [term for not-monospace], thus, is variable-width.  What you're describing is a variable width font (VWF) hack.  These are far more common in SNES games, although not impossible to pull off on an NES.

It's even possible to pull it off on Game Boy. However, if Final Fantasy 2 uses CHR-ROM, you're pretty much screwed in this respect.
TJF588
Guest
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2008, 01:22:53 pm »

I got excited at both larning terminology and learning that it can be put to use, then depressed when another in-term shot me down...

As for Ctrl+P:  *facepalms*  After a while, it takes some thought to remember the letter of key you're pressing... That, or I'm just a flake.
Ryusui
Guest
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2008, 06:41:58 pm »

I'm a little fuzzy on the details, but I do have some hands-on experience. See, NES games have one major difference from a lot of their descendants. Instead of storing graphics all willy-nilly throughout the ROM and copying them to VRAM as needed, NES games often used CHR-ROM instead. Imagine if VRAM were one huge fixed chunk of graphics: tilemaps still apply (the term in this case is "PPU", if memory serves, though damned if I can remember what it stands for), but you can only ever display what's been burned into CHR-ROM. So no VWF, since that means you have to write new graphics into VRAM on-the-fly.

There are also games that simply used CHR-RAM, emphasis on RAM (though I may have the term wrong), which means they behaved like any modern console title. On those games, VWF is very much a possibility.

I don't know which way FFII leans, but if it uses CHR-ROM, you can kiss your dreams of VWF goodbye.
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