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Author Topic: Zelda 1 Remake - Does it exist? If not, could/should it?  (Read 2 times)
Throck
Guest
« on: May 07, 2008, 11:22:19 am »

I recently took the time to re-explore the world of the original Legend of Zelda, and it occurs to me that LoZ1 could definitely benefit from similar treatment that Nintendo gave the original Metroid (That is, Zero Mission).  While I know that there is no such official cartridge on the market, I was curious: Has anyone attempted a reworking of A Link to the Past to recreate the map and game sequence of LoZ1?  If not, how difficult (or even impossible) would it be to attempt?

I freely admit that I know little of the ins and outs of romhacking. although it appears to me that the idea wouldn't be too difficult, considering it would be mostly a map hack.  The main question in my mind is whether or not ALttP has sufficient mapspace to recreate the original LoZ1 map, although some hack could probably be performed using the light/dark worlds to simulate the scope of the original map.

Assuming such a project is possible and not mind-twistingly difficult, what tools would one use?  Would it be possible to perform the change on the GBA version as well?
Disch
Guest
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2008, 11:29:27 am »

Zelda Classic
Throck
Guest
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2008, 11:35:36 am »

Yes, Zelda Classic is an interesting project.  However, it does not in any way deal with the SNES or GBA roms themselves, which means it isn't really what I'm asking about.  You see, I'm fortunate enough to own the equipment necessary to play SNES and GBA roms on things other than just my desktop PC.  So, while Zelda Classic is a great project for playing a graphically upgraded LoZ1 on my PC, it's useless for playing it on anything else.
MathOnNapkins
Guest
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2008, 12:41:47 pm »

You might want to check out BS Zelda. It's a remake of Zelda 1 for the Bandai Satellaview. More or less it's Zelda 1 with some graphical upgrades, and a few other nifty graphical tricks, but that's about it. You can play them on emulator already, but as for an actual system, I'm not sure.
syntax error
Guest
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2008, 12:55:18 pm »

I said it already in a other post,I downloaded an open source Zelda remake for GEM which runs in a window.
It is available for ST and PC and was created 1999 in a magiC programming contest.(magiC is the alternative
AES component, which includes most of GEM).This is wriiten in C and was very interesting to change and reompile,
but i could not turn it in a RPG and have no ST anymore
deespence2929
Guest
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2008, 01:09:06 pm »

No, theres been no official remakes, and no attempts to port the original Zelda to other systems. BS Zelda is like a remake, but the level layout is totally different.

The is a graphics port for Zelda classic that gives it the BS Zelda graphics so it is a graphical update of the original Zelda, thats probably as good as you can get.
Throck
Guest
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2008, 01:37:36 pm »

Maybe I should rephrase my question, as I'm getting a lot of answers to questions I didn't ask.

I want to play the original LoZ on my Gameboy Micro (or at least, emulated via some SNES emulator on my Xbox), but with the graphical and gameplay improvements introduced in ALttP (Spin attack, moving diagonally, etc).  It is obvious to me that such a creature does not currently exist: The question is: Can it?  If so, how?

My understanding is that it would be a matter of modifying the map and dialog text in the Link to the Past rom.  Map and dialog modification is generally one of the more common forms of romhacking.  Quite honestly, I'm surprised that this hasn't already been done, but that does seem to be the case.

Just to be clear, pointing me towards anything which does not actually use the original Zelda roms in some way is not, in fact, an answer to my question.  I don't mean to be rude, but I am asking in a romhacking forum for a reason: That is, I'm curious about hacking the original roms.  The answers I've received have provided me with interesting information which I will certainly take advantage of, but they are not answers to my questions.
UglyJoe
Guest
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2008, 01:46:14 pm »

Quote from: Throck on May 07, 2008, 01:37:36 pm
I want to play the original LoZ on my Gameboy Micro (or at least, emulated via some SNES emulator on my Xbox), but with the graphical and gameplay improvements introduced in ALttP (Spin attack, moving diagonally, etc).  It is obvious to me that such a creature does not currently exist: The question is: Can it?  If so, how?

Some utils to get you started: here

and some general beginners docs here:
The Newbie Package of REQUIRED Material

ROMHacking.net FAQ: You ask, we answer!
ROMHacking.net Getting Started Section: Newbies Go HERE!
ROMHacking.net Documents Section!
How to ask questions the smart way.
On the Essence of ROM Hacking
Karatorian
Guest
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2008, 02:56:23 pm »

On the SNES, it can be done. Relatively easily in fact. Due to the fact that there are tools availble for editing Zelda 3 (although Hyrule magic is apparently kinda unstable), most of the work would be in mapping out the overwold and the various dungeons.

However, some gameplay hacks would be required for the various bosses, items, etc. If you haven't the skills to do them (likely to be some pretty heavy ASM hacking), seek someone who does. However, don't just start asking for someone to help you out just yet. Most people aren't willing to do someone's project for them (unless they really like the idea, don't count on that).

What I suggest you do is to get Hyrule Magic and work on the level editing end of things. Once you've made substantial progress (the overworld and at least some of the dungeons), then look for an ASM hacker to help you out. (People are much more willing to join a project that looks like it's going to get done and already has gotten well underway.)

Of course, until engine changes can be made, you'll have to make due with the usual capabilities of the LttP engine. In this case, you'll simply have to use the enemies, items, etc. that you have availble until such time as they can be added. Also, if you're ambitious, you could learn ASM hacking yourself. (I did for my first serious ROM hacking project, but I already knew how to program and ASM for some CPUs, so it was only a matter of learning the platform.)

What I suggest you do is brush up on the skills you'll need. Firstly, read all the documents that UglyJoe linked too. Then learn about the SNES specifically. Then read all the documentation you can find on Zelda 3 hacking. Learn to use Hyrule Magic and any other utilities you'll need. (It's a good idea to save all this stuff in a project folder, like "zelda-remake/docs" and "zelda-remake/tools", etc.)

While you're doing all that, start working on a design document. Like any programming project, ROM hacking goes much better when you have a clear idea of what needs to be done. Map out (or aquire maps) of all the Zelda 1 screens. Complile a list of enemies, items, etc. and note which ones are in the Zelda 3 engine and which one's aren't. Define anything else that needs to be hacked.

Once you've gotten all that done and a playable demo with at least a good portion of the levels, you should be able to find someone willing to handle the more advance parts, if you can't do it yourself. (Heck, I might even be interested. But only if you're serious and demonstrate that you're willing to do a lot of the work yourself.)

As for doing it on the GBA, I'm sure it'd be possible, but not quite as easily. While the GBA can emulate the SNES, it can't do it full speed and never will. In an action game like Zelda, speed really matters and so using SNES emulation of the Zelda 3 engine isn't a good option.

Instead, you'd have to find a GBA native engine to use. I don't know if there where any Zelda games for the GBA or not. If not, you'll be pretty much out of luck. If so, it'd be much the same deal as the SNES version. (Locate docs and tools, write design doc, do as much as you can on your own, then ask for help, etc.)

Best of luck, this is a project I'd really like to see. (Regardless of what platform you decide to go with.)

creaothceann
Guest
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2008, 03:03:42 pm »

Quote from: Karatorian on May 07, 2008, 02:56:23 pm
I don't know if there where any Zelda games for the GBA

Yep
King of Sky
Guest
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2008, 03:50:05 pm »

For a remake like Zero Mission there is Zelda Mobile.
http://zeldamobile.gorthwogh.net/
Karatorian
Guest
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2008, 06:57:34 pm »

If you really want to make a GBA version rather than an SNES version, there are two GBA Zelda games that you could look into: The remake of A Link to the Past (and Four Swords) or The Minish Cap. While I've never played either of them, I imagine the LttP port would be closer in gameplay to The Legend of Zelda, as it's said to feature very few changes from the original.

That said, it's likely that there is substantially less information on hacking either of these games than there is for the original LttP. It's possible that the remake has similar data structures to the original and so some of the information about it could still apply, but it's also possible that there's no relation internally. You'll have to do some research if you decide to go this route.

Keep up the good work and feel free to ask if you need any help.
Shadowsithe
Guest
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2008, 01:38:50 pm »

Um... BS Zelda?
MathOnNapkins
Guest
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2008, 04:05:36 pm »

If I were going to make a reversion of zelda 1 I'd probably do it with Minish Cap. As an experienced hacker of ALTTP, I doubt that the GBA version is any easier to hack than the SNES one. Minish Cap has a very nice engine and I would imagine it is more easily modded than ALTTP, but that's just speculation.
Throck
Guest
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2008, 10:45:17 pm »

BS Zelda comes close to what I'm wanting, but still falls short on a number of points: Most notably, it isn't available for the GBA, which is my primary target.

Basically, I hope for a LoZ1 remake on the GBA or SNES which adds the following features:

-Improved graphics
-Save anytime (LoZ1 only allowed saving when you died, although progress may have been automatically saved at key points: I was never too clear on this)
-Save location (more or less: Last building entered/exited would be fine.  LoZ1's system for this doesn't really make sense)
-Viewable overworld map
-More structured quest (Allow for free roaming as per original, guide the player towards the dungeons.  This would still allow for visiting the dungeons in any order, but would show the dungeon locations on the overworld map in a set order.)
-Better control of Link (Moving diagonally, spin attack)

In terms of the two GBA Zelda titles (A Link to the Past & Minish Cap), A Link to the Past seems best suited to the above.  Minish Cap may feature a technically superior engine, but much of its superiority would be unused in a straight LoZ1 recreation.  Additionally, ALttP's graphical style is much closer to the original LoZ1, and would require virtually no graphical tweaks.  Minish Cap's graphical style is quite different.

Both GBA Zelda games seem to have a smaller overworld map than the original LoZ.  I have no way of knowing if this is a hard-coded limit, or if the engine could support larger maps.  The viewable overworld map is scrollable in both games, so larger maps might be possible.

Neither ALttP nor Minish Cap feature the "sword beam" ability.  Personally, I've never been a fan of this attack, but adding it wouldn't be possible without ASM hacking.

Minish Cap does have the advantage of an in-game level editor (a secret item in the game obtainable with cheat devices).  However, it only allows editing as Link.  You have to "pick up" map tiles and place them where you want them in game.  So, if I want to put a rock somewhere, I would have to find a rock, copy it, then keep holding the "copy" button combo until I was standing in front of wherever I wanted to put the new rock.  I'm uncertain how this function would apply to doors and dungeon layouts, and whether an edited map is saved.  I don't think using this in-game editor would be feasible for a LoZ1 remake.

As for ASM hacking: I have programmed in assembly in the past.  Personally, I've always preferred it over high-level programming languages, as it gives you more direct control over the system.  However, my ASM experience is limited to a custom-designed 6502 microcomputer, and a modicum of DOS-era classroom examples.  I kept wanting to learn more in-depth assembly programming, but my college professors always steered me towards things like Visual Studio.  I'm nearly 30, and re-learning ASM for a new system isn't really within the scope of what I'm willing/able to contribute to this kind of project.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like anyone's made any editing tools for either of the GBA games, although Hyrule Magic looks like it could do the job on the SNES version of ALttP (although it could use some better documentation).  It's a pity the same couldn't be done for the GBA version, but there you go.
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