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Author Topic: Looking for a good SNES Hex Editor  (Read 2 times)
Jim25
Guest
« on: April 28, 2008, 10:22:48 pm »

Hi. For years now, I've wanted to change the text and level order in Ogre Battle for SNES. I'm starting to wonder if either of these is even possible with this particular game.

I know next to nothing about Rom Hacking but I've been reading the helpful tutorials here. My problem at the moment is that I can't seem to find a hex editor that will work/is user-friendly for beginners. The current versions I have of RomEdit2, Hexpose, and SearchR won't run. I've managed to get Hexplorer working, but I've had no noticeable results upon trying to edit text in Ogre Battle.

If anyone has ever hacked this ROM, could you let me know so I'll have some evidence that it's possible? More importantly, can anyone recommend a current SNES hex editor that's confirmed to work? Thanks.
SerenadeDS
Guest
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2008, 10:25:51 pm »

I don't know anything about hacking Ogre Battle for SNES, but WinHex32 is a great Hex Editor. It has some features just for SNES roms. I suggest you give it a try. Hex Workshop and Thingy32 are some other common Hex Editors.
Jim25
Guest
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2008, 10:31:56 pm »

I had a version of Hex Workshop but apparently it was only temporary. Now it says something about the trial being over. Thanks for the recommendation, I'll give WinHex32 a try for now.
Aeris130
Guest
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2008, 07:17:06 am »

I'd recommend Windhex. Though I seem to recall that some (major) parts of Ogre Battles text are compressed.

Also, most hex editors work on every format. They only display binary data after all.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2008, 07:25:33 am by Aeris130 »
Nightcrawler
Guest
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2008, 07:50:12 am »

Yes, if text is compressed, NO hex editor will show it to you.
Jim25
Guest
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2008, 02:38:56 am »

Is there a way to tell, from looking at it, whether or not the text is compressed? I've tried opening the Orge Battle ROM; what I see for the most part are a series of "F"s and "0"s, and some other text as well. Does this mean that nothing in the ROM can be edited?
Skeud
Guest
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2008, 07:12:48 am »

Ogre Battle's script for Snes is Lzss compressed.
Nightcrawler
Guest
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2008, 08:47:02 am »

Quote from: Jim25 on April 30, 2008, 02:38:56 am
Is there a way to tell, from looking at it, whether or not the text is compressed? I've tried opening the Orge Battle ROM; what I see for the most part are a series of "F"s and "0"s, and some other text as well. Does this mean that nothing in the ROM can be edited?

Sometimes you can see a trace of partial words or a single word or two. Typically if you take the first word of the beginning of a block of text (say the very first word in the game) you can still find it via relative searching. That's because every compressed stream starts with a few uncompressed characters. Then, you'd see the first word or two (or just a few characters) and the rest garbled. you're obvious out of luck if the strings aren't in order because you'll have no idea what is the first word in a block of text. Your millage will vary depending on the game, the compression scheme, and how it's set up. If the game used dictionary or DCE (dual character encoding), in addition to a real compression method, chances are you won't see anything at all.

Aside from instaces like that, no, you can't really see compression. But if you have scanned the ROM and see no text, have tried relative searching a few times and come up empty handed, chances are it's compressed. That's typically how you might know. This is where you may want to jump into learning to use a debugger and some assembly. Rather than playing the trial and error game, you can know for sure from the game's code. But that's a whole new challenge in itself.

ROMhacking is time consuming hard work!  Cheesy
Jim25
Guest
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2008, 09:41:23 am »

I only understood about 50% of what you just said, Nightcrawler. I really am that new to this. Skeud, I don't know what "Lzss" refers to. To be quite honest, I'm still learning what "compressed" refers to.

I appreciate the replies, though.  Smiley I just need to do a bit more research. Maybe someone can PM me if they ever hear of/come across an Ogre Battle ROM that's been modifed in even the slightest way, so I'll know it at least can be done.
Nightcrawler
Guest
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2008, 12:09:59 pm »

I can tell you with absolute certainty Ogra Battle CAN be modified.

Here, this is my favorite starter document on compression. See the LZ77 section. That's basically LZSS.

http://www.romhacking.net/docs/114/

You need basic binary hex knowledge though to understand any compression. All compression is, is eliminating the redundancy in data.

As a newbie, you've got a long road ahead. Don't be discouraged, but it's going to take you quite sometime to be able to handle Ogre Battle, but  it can be done.
Jim25
Guest
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2008, 12:42:15 pm »

I downloaded the tutorial and added it to my file of related info. Thanks for the encouragement.
creaothceann
Guest
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2008, 03:06:21 pm »

Quote from: Nightcrawler on April 30, 2008, 08:47:02 am
you can't really see compression.

Well, compressed blocks usually have large differences from one byte to the next.
Karatorian
Guest
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2008, 08:20:14 pm »

To expand on what creaothceann said, the likelyhood that a chunk of data has been compressed can be determined by statistical analysis. Compressed data (provided the routine is any good) has a very low amount of redundancy. This lack of redundancy, called entropy, can be quantified mathematically and can be measured through programatic means.

Of course, this is all just dry theory and actually applying it is probably overkill for ROM hacking. Furthermore, such esoteric topics aren't really the stuff for newbies. However, it does sound like it would make for an interesting utitly if someone where to write a tool to calculate the entropy of a chunk of data.

Of course truely random data and encrypted data have high entropy as well, so it's not positive, mearly an indicator.

In conclusion, you can "see" compression, but you need to use the proper optics.
Jim25
Guest
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2008, 08:34:05 pm »

Quote from: Karatorian on April 30, 2008, 08:20:14 pm
Furthermore, such esoteric topics aren't really the stuff for newbies.

...You're right about that, considering I understood about 3% of what you went into. Smiley All I'm looking to do right now is open up the game I've been playing for a decade and figure out how to change the first line of dialogue into something else. Then the second, and so forth. I know it's not going to be easy, though.
Karatorian
Guest
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2008, 09:00:21 pm »

Well, it was mostly off topic anyway.

As it's been stated that the game's text is LZSS compressed, you'll have to somehow locate the compressed data, extract it, uncompress it, edit it, recopress it, and reinsert it into the ROM. Read the doc Nightcrawler linked to, which will explain how compression works, the LZ77 section also has info on LZSS.
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