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Author Topic: FF4 Hack  (Read 2 times)
Deathlike2
Guest
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2008, 05:30:38 pm »

Well, this may be a bit OT, but worth the discussion I guess.

I'm not sure exactly what the study is, but as far as I can tell, switching the male-female roles confuses the stereotype a little. On the other hand if the game presents said character to be strong in the first place like CT's Ayla or FF6's Terra/Celes (esper level up boosts can remake every character at a whim), it's not going to make a difference.

The irony here is that Rydia is arguably the strongest of all the characters in the game in regards to late game stat growth (post level 70, ironcally followed by the next strongest Gilbert/Edward, the chicken of a bard)... only really hindered by weapon/armor selection.
Numonohi_Boi
Guest
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2008, 05:37:48 pm »

yes, well the thing is Rydia won't be using Rydia stats, she's just going to be kain-clone she-dragoon. I dunno, it just sounds a bit lame to me, if you were actually to keep the character's attributes and rewrite the story a bit it might be more like a real hack but this sounds more and more like. "I want to be teh gurlz" of course I could be gravely mistaken, but it just seems a little superficial in nature.

I used strong words there but I mean no personal disrespect, nor am I trying to smack-talk your work. In all honestly I can't make any observation till I see the final product, I'm just worrried that it will be less than it COULD be.
Deathlike2
Guest
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2008, 06:20:04 pm »

Quote from: Panzer88 on February 01, 2008, 05:37:48 pm
yes, well the thing is Rydia won't be using Rydia stats, she's just going to be kain-clone she-dragoon. I dunno, it just sounds a bit lame to me, if you were actually to keep the character's attributes and rewrite the story a bit it might be more like a real hack but this sounds more and more like. "I want to be teh gurlz" of course I could be gravely mistaken, but it just seems a little superficial in nature.

What makes Kain is the Jump command and the equipment... not his stats.
Doctor Bunsen
Guest
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2008, 10:56:01 pm »

Quote
yes, well the thing is Rydia won't be using Rydia stats, she's just going to be kain-clone she-dragoon. I dunno, it just sounds a bit lame to me, if you were actually to keep the character's attributes and rewrite the story a bit it might be more like a real hack but this sounds more and more like. "I want to be teh gurlz" of course I could be gravely mistaken, but it just seems a little superficial in nature.
It's supposed to be superficial.

I notice you used the term "she-dragoon".  Are dragoons male by default?
If you were going to "rewrite the story a bit" around the switch, what aspects would you rewrite?
What is wrong with "wanting to be teh gurlz"?

Oh, and I just thought of something amusing... if this was done, Edge would be commenting that Cecil and Kain are hot boys when he joins the party and be hitting on Kain the whole game instead of Rydia.  Maybe it would be easier to just switch Cecil and Rosa since Cecil is the main character.  Then I'd just have to switch that line of Kain's after Tellah kills Golbez to avoid making him gay.
Doctor Bunsen
Guest
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2008, 10:59:14 pm »

Quote from: Deathlike2 on February 01, 2008, 06:20:04 pm
Quote from: Panzer88 on February 01, 2008, 05:37:48 pm
yes, well the thing is Rydia won't be using Rydia stats, she's just going to be kain-clone she-dragoon. I dunno, it just sounds a bit lame to me, if you were actually to keep the character's attributes and rewrite the story a bit it might be more like a real hack but this sounds more and more like. "I want to be teh gurlz" of course I could be gravely mistaken, but it just seems a little superficial in nature.

What makes Kain is the Jump command and the equipment... not his stats.
So if Rydia had the Jump command and the equipment, would she be perceived by players in a similar way?  I really don't think so - hence the study.
Gemini
Guest
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2008, 02:12:28 am »

Quote from: Doctor Bunsen on February 01, 2008, 02:28:46 pm
How is RPG Maker illegal?
You are going to use a copywritten story, so you are basically "hacking" the script. That is as illegal as hacking the rom. Wink
Doctor Bunsen
Guest
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2008, 10:38:13 am »

Quote from: Gemini on February 02, 2008, 02:12:28 am
Quote from: Doctor Bunsen on February 01, 2008, 02:28:46 pm
How is RPG Maker illegal?
You are going to use a copywritten story, so you are basically "hacking" the script. That is as illegal as hacking the rom. Wink
Who said I was using a copywritten story?
FinalMinuet
Guest
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2008, 12:08:41 pm »

Quote from: Gemini on February 02, 2008, 02:12:28 am
You are going to use a copywritten story, so you are basically "hacking" the script. That is as illegal as hacking the rom. Wink

It's copyright, not copywrite. He would be using a copyrighted story. And he never said he was going to use the story from FFIV. I assumed he was going to write his own.
Deathlike2
Guest
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2008, 12:13:51 pm »

Quote from: Doctor Bunsen on February 01, 2008, 10:59:14 pm
Quote from: Deathlike2 on February 01, 2008, 06:20:04 pm
Quote from: Panzer88 on February 01, 2008, 05:37:48 pm
yes, well the thing is Rydia won't be using Rydia stats, she's just going to be kain-clone she-dragoon. I dunno, it just sounds a bit lame to me, if you were actually to keep the character's attributes and rewrite the story a bit it might be more like a real hack but this sounds more and more like. "I want to be teh gurlz" of course I could be gravely mistaken, but it just seems a little superficial in nature.

What makes Kain is the Jump command and the equipment... not his stats.
So if Rydia had the Jump command and the equipment, would she be perceived by players in a similar way?  I really don't think so - hence the study.

If Rydia had everything Kain had in theory, I would treat her the same as Kain. If you haven't played FF5 where everyone can do the same job (more or less), there's no significant difference how I would treat the character because they all can do the same task. A different character with a swapped role will make me use them in the role they are currently in. It's a matter of utilizing them properly. However, it only brings mild confusion regarding "role reversal" in terms of story.
FinalMinuet
Guest
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2008, 12:21:59 pm »

Quote from: Deathlike2 on February 02, 2008, 12:13:51 pm
If Rydia had everything Kain had in theory, I would treat her the same as Kain. If you haven't played FF5 where everyone can do the same job (more or less), there's no significant difference how I would treat the character because they all can do the same task. A different character with a swapped role will make me use them in the role they are currently in. It's a matter of utilizing them properly. However, it only brings mild confusion regarding "role reversal" in terms of story.

That reminds me of Final Fantasy Tactics, where this is also true (essentially). However, in many RPGs, the stats for female characters usually aren't as high in the areas of strength or HP as the stats for male characters are. Usually that leads people to leave the magic classes for the women. In FFT though, you get rewarded with two extra classes for training a man down the magic path and a woman down the warrior path. Granted those two classes kinda suck, but still, they exist. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Doctor Bunsen
Guest
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2008, 02:05:30 pm »

Quote
If you haven't played FF5 where everyone can do the same job (more or less), there's no significant difference how I would treat the character because they all can do the same task.
I read that the base stats in that game made the women more suitable for magic jobs and the men more suitable for fighter jobs.

Quote
A different character with a swapped role will make me use them in the role they are currently in. It's a matter of utilizing them properly. However, it only brings mild confusion regarding "role reversal" in terms of story.
So in terms of actual gameplay, perception wouldn't change, but would the game be just as enjoyable if Rosa was the one saving Cecil?  A lot of people disliked FFX-2.  Do you think this was due to the gameplay or the fact that there were three women as the lead characters?

Are there any specific FF4 hacking programs that I could use?  I have downloaded three, but they don't seem to have the features I'm looking for.
KaioShin
Guest
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2008, 02:26:31 pm »

Quote from: Doctor Bunsen on February 02, 2008, 02:05:30 pm
A lot of people disliked FFX-2.  Do you think this was due to the gameplay or the fact that there were three women as the lead characters?

It was the way HOW they were presented. Sailor Moon like "transformations" and other "cool" moves to show off their asses and their busts. Gamers can like female heroes too, if they are presented in a non sexist and non cheap way. An example of an excellent female lead would be Dreamfall - The longest journey.
Deathlike2
Guest
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2008, 04:38:00 pm »

Quote from: Doctor Bunsen on February 02, 2008, 02:05:30 pm
Quote
If you haven't played FF5 where everyone can do the same job (more or less), there's no significant difference how I would treat the character because they all can do the same task.
I read that the base stats in that game made the women more suitable for magic jobs and the men more suitable for fighter jobs.

The difference is so minute that it is virtually irrelevent. Sure I would take advantage of those minor diferences, but you're missing the point.

Time spent with Galuf is to train him to be a spellcaster, rather than a fighter. However, that doesn't prevent me from spending time with Krile as a Monk to maximize the stats.

On the other hand, FF5 is one of the few Squaresoft games where you actively play with fewest number of male characters. So I do end up using Faris as the other fighter. You spend the latter half of the game with 3 females in the party anyways.

Quote
Quote
A different character with a swapped role will make me use them in the role they are currently in. It's a matter of utilizing them properly. However, it only brings mild confusion regarding "role reversal" in terms of story.
So in terms of actual gameplay, perception wouldn't change, but would the game be just as enjoyable if Rosa was the one saving Cecil?  A lot of people disliked FFX-2.  Do you think this was due to the gameplay or the fact that there were three women as the lead characters?

It depends on how it is all conveyed. If it is well written, then it shouldn't have those issues (other than people who cannot get around those stereotypes). Like my FF5 point, I don't really see any problems unless you are offended/not comfortable with these details or feel that the story is inconsistant with these roles.

Quote
Are there any specific FF4 hacking programs that I could use?  I have downloaded three, but they don't seem to have the features I'm looking for.

You truly have to do the romhacking yourself. Stuff has been done related to hacking sprites and whatnot, but noone has created a tool for this purpose.
Numonohi_Boi
Guest
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2008, 05:20:53 pm »

Quote from: Deathlike2 on February 01, 2008, 06:20:04 pm
Quote from: Panzer88 on February 01, 2008, 05:37:48 pm
yes, well the thing is Rydia won't be using Rydia stats, she's just going to be kain-clone she-dragoon. I dunno, it just sounds a bit lame to me, if you were actually to keep the character's attributes and rewrite the story a bit it might be more like a real hack but this sounds more and more like. "I want to be teh gurlz" of course I could be gravely mistaken, but it just seems a little superficial in nature.

yes I know, I meant the whole package

Quote from: Doctor Bunsen on February 01, 2008, 10:56:01 pm
It's supposed to be superficial.
I notice you used the term "she-dragoon".  Are dragoons male by default?

supposed to be superficial? why? and of course all dragoons aren't male, haven't you ever played Final Fantasy IX? Freya is a dragoon. also there are many other ones where you can set any character, male or female, to the dragoon class. I just said what I did because she wouldn't really be Rydia, she'd be Rain (1 part Rydia 4 parts Kain, without ANY other changes)

Quote from: Doctor Bunsen on February 01, 2008, 10:56:01 pm
If you were going to "rewrite the story a bit" around the switch, what aspects would you rewrite?

I would rewrite it so that the stuff that the lead characters say sounds like their personalities, Rosa does not = Cecil's personality, the same with Kain and Rydia, the way they relate to the other characters is different too. They could be a Dark Knight and Dragoon too, but I also think they could be their original classes and still play the lead. You could still have Edge hit on Rydia too. I think what I don't get is that I already thought the characters WERE strong, both socially and within the game combat system, Rydia especially.

Quote from: Doctor Bunsen on February 01, 2008, 10:56:01 pm
What is wrong with "wanting to be teh gurlz"?

nothing, as long as they aren't suffering from guy identity crisis Smiley

Quote from: Doctor Bunsen on February 02, 2008, 02:05:30 pm
Quote
If you haven't played FF5 where everyone can do the same job (more or less), there's no significant difference how I would treat the character because they all can do the same task.
I read that the base stats in that game made the women more suitable for magic jobs and the men more suitable for fighter jobs.

could be, but I never played them like that, in fact, Faris was by Knight, and Lena was my berserker. By the end of the game you are playing with 3 girls and one guy so....

Quote from: Doctor Bunsen on February 02, 2008, 02:05:30 pm
[A lot of people disliked FFX-2.  Do you think this was due to the gameplay or the fact that there were three women as the lead characters?

it was because it was somewhat rushed, a side game, and not like the main FF games, people wanted a serious story. at least some people, everyone is different. I don't think people cared that the characters were girls so much that the entire game was written for 10 year old Japanese girls.

also I don't know of any specific hacks, as Deathlike said.

like I said, I don't have any problem with girls, but if it's just a sprite swap then it feels half done, if you really want to switch the characters then alter their dialogue and personality too, As said before, Rydia and Kain are NOT the same, and neither are Rosa and Cecil.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2008, 08:52:21 pm by Panzer88 »
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