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Topic: Point me in the right direction! DKC2! (Read 456 times)
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remainAnewb
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« on: November 18, 2007, 06:33:29 pm » |
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I'm not asking anyone to do anything for me on this one.
This is pretty funny, but ever since I got Donkey Kong Country 2 and an SNES,
I've been dead set on finding a way to take the same (amazingly short) game and not change a thing, but add hundreds of new levels. Everyone's called me crazy for it, and it's my favorite game for some reason.
Now, since there is no "Hyrule Magic" or "Lunar Magic" for DKC2, I'd really love for someone to give me a few tips on what utilities to use, and how to implement all of this.
Not whining for a handout here, but I've been searching like crazy and there are so many tile editors and just STUFF to use that I don't know which ones are most useful for DKC2 level design (and more).
I'm not changing gameplay, music or anything like that. Just maybe adding 2 different kinds of kremkoins, 3 more lost worlds, and another lost world unlockable by getting the DK coin in every level of the (hacked) game as well as the original (which is still included). The original game is played and the new stuff is added on...
Here's what I'm shooting for:
Use the same Overworld map, but simply add new points that are new worlds.
For example:
After you beat K. Rool's Keep and chase him to the Flying Krock, you don't need to follow him right away, you can go to a new world that's opened up leading to the middle of the ocean or something.
So on and so on. 70 or so new worlds, hundreds of new levels.
I can try my artsy side out on making world backgrounds.
Maybe add a 2nd or even 3rd "Lost World" guarded by different-colored Klubbas. Collect silver and bronze kremkoins, you get the point. Beat all 3 Lost Worlds, go to another, and so on.
Maybe I am biting off more than I can chew, but I am HUNGRY!
It seems I'll need a tile editor, make a few of my own, but what to edit the levels with?
Help me out here, I'm in no rush.
If this takes me 5 years, it's a personal project that means a lot to me, i don't care.
I don't claim to be the "MaSTUR Haxorz!" with the next big thing...
Thanks for reading! Hope to hear some responses! =]
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Ryusui
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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2007, 01:40:56 am » |
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First let me say this much: yes, you are biting off more than you can chew. Have you ever played Chrono Trigger? You know how if you examine the right telepad of Lucca's machine instead of the left one, you'll warp instantly to the Day of Lavos, and if you do this at the very start of the game, you'll be only Level 1 when you face the big nasty? This is kinda the situation you're looking at. You are looking at reams of high-level ASM hacking work to accomplish everything on your laundry list. My recommendation? Start small. Start with basic graphics hacking and learn the basics, then work your way up to more complex feats, like translation hacking, basic ASM work...you should be able to code a proportional (or "Variable-Width", as we call them around here) font with but a modicum of effort before you start looking into figuring out how levels are put together or how to add brand-new gameplay features. The Newbie Package of REQUIRED MaterialApologies for the acronym (it's part of the tag), but this should be able to help you: ROMHacking.net FAQ: You ask, we answer!ROMHacking.net Getting Started Section: Newbies Go HERE!ROMHacking.net Documents Section!How to ask questions the smart way.On the Essence of ROM Hacking |
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DarknessSavior
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« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2007, 08:34:44 am » |
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First let me say this much: yes, you are biting off more than you can chew. Have you ever played Chrono Trigger? You know how if you examine the right telepad of Lucca's machine instead of the left one, you'll warp instantly to the Day of Lavos, and if you do this at the very start of the game, you'll be only Level 1 when you face the big nasty?
This is kinda the situation you're looking at.
As much as I agree with what you said, you drew an incorrect analogy. If you're able to go into the right telepod, you've already beaten the game once, and you're using New Game+. Therefore, you're not Level 1. You are, however, only using Chrono and Marle, which gives you a slight handicap, but nothing that can't be overcome. *hides* ~DS |
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Moulinoski
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« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2007, 09:45:53 am » |
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Still, I like the analogy.  |
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remainAnewb
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« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2007, 10:37:42 am » |
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First let me say this much: yes, you are biting off more than you can chew. Have you ever played Chrono Trigger? You know how if you examine the right telepad of Lucca's machine instead of the left one, you'll warp instantly to the Day of Lavos, and if you do this at the very start of the game, you'll be only Level 1 when you face the big nasty?
This is kinda the situation you're looking at.
You are looking at reams of high-level ASM hacking work to accomplish everything on your laundry list. My recommendation? Start small. Start with basic graphics hacking and learn the basics, then work your way up to more complex feats, like translation hacking, basic ASM work...you should be able to code a proportional (or "Variable-Width", as we call them around here) font with but a modicum of effort before you start looking into figuring out how levels are put together or how to add brand-new gameplay features.
Apologies for the acronym (it's part of the tag), but this should be able to help you:
I imagined i was biting off more than i could chew. What else can you expect from a newb?  What I was getting at was not adding new gameplay, changing text (i don't want to go anywhere NEAR japanese!). I guess I'm just a bit frustrated with how there are Zelda and SMW1 editors out there that you can drag and drop with, but not one for DKC1 or 2. |
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« Last Edit: November 19, 2007, 04:59:33 pm by remainAnewb »
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Numonohi_Boi
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« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2007, 03:05:45 pm » |
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he wasn't saying that you have to work with text, he's saying that you need to learn to hack, and that's a type of thing that can build your skills.
The reason no one has done anything with it, is because it's REALLY REALLY complex. I agree, someone should, but it's going to take more than us wanting it, someone has to do it. But as Ryusui pointed out, it'll take a really advanced hacker to do so, so if you want to you have a lot of learning to do before that step.
It takes a lot of work to hack a game, it takes even more to make an easy to use editor so non hackers can edit it.
not that we're trying to be unhelpful, or even dis you, it's a good idea.
start by reading the things that Ryusui provided links for. These things take a lot of time for only a little reward, it isn't glamorous, but if you're really dedicated you might just accomplish it.
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remainAnewb
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« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2007, 05:07:31 pm » |
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he wasn't saying that you have to work with text, he's saying that you need to learn to hack, and that's a type of thing that can build your skills.
The reason no one has done anything with it, is because it's REALLY REALLY complex. I agree, someone should, but it's going to take more than us wanting it, someone has to do it. But as Ryusui pointed out, it'll take a really advanced hacker to do so, so if you want to you have a lot of learning to do before that step.
It takes a lot of work to hack a game, it takes even more to make an easy to use editor so non hackers can edit it.
not that we're trying to be unhelpful, or even dis you, it's a good idea.
start by reading the things that Ryusui provided links for. These things take a lot of time for only a little reward, it isn't glamorous, but if you're really dedicated you might just accomplish it.
I'm reading like mad Like I said, I don't care how long it takes me, i just want to make sure I'm going in the right direction. And insult away! Please! The more opposition I get, the more motivation I get to prove ya wrong in the future!  Just how far though is another story...  \ Another thing is that I program a little Java, so I'm not used to low-level stuff. That may be my problem. I saw all the FAQs by the way and I've already printed them all off. What I was getting at is what things set DKC2 apart from other games? And what do you mean by complex? I know it MUST have compressed graphics and all that - so i was just wondering how i'll go about it. Thanks for your responses! I'm starting to think my original post was more of a "hey I'm here" sort of thing; but lets pretend none of us noticed, eh?  |
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Ryusui
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« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2007, 06:18:51 pm » |
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I suggested you try a bit of translation hacking because it's a good way to get your feet wet with ASM. Japanese conventions of style (and often grammar) result in games that you simply can't insert an English script into and call "done"...unless, of course, you have no problems with a kludgy, hacky-looking result. Hacking is more often than not a necessity to produce a decent-looking translation: in fact, some changes can make the actual translation end easier, like the aforementioned proportional font (which is probably a must for any modern fan translation, though certain hardware quirks often make it an impossibility on the original NES).
It might also help to examine just how programs like Lunar Magic and the like work. Follow in the footsteps of others: learn from them how games like Super Mario World store their level data and see if you can't apply that knowledge to DKC2.
In any case, producing a level editor is relatively simple compared to some of the other things you've mentioned: basically, actually adding things (levels, maps, gameplay features) is a pain compared to simply altering what's already there. It could be done in theory, but it would take a metric buttload of time, effort and cursing even for a skilled romhacker to accomplish.
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remainAnewb
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« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2007, 09:36:42 pm » |
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I thought translation was just altering the text, but apparrently it's actually changing the tiles too. Pretty dense huh? Well, better get started. It's one thing to just get the tools and all the tutorials saved, it's another to get my nose wet and start from square one. Won't become a "skilled romhacker" by sitting around whining.  |
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Numonohi_Boi
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« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2007, 09:48:37 pm » |
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that's a good attitude, you're going to learn a lot in the next few weeks, make sure you let it all sink in.
good luck!
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