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Topic: Anyone Interested? (Read 1022 times)
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Kojiro
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« on: August 17, 2007, 07:36:49 pm » |
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I want to start designing a site and group structure that will allow us to manage projects well and openly and easily allow us to incorporate new members and their projects, to become a sort of community of resources for various people to help each other out on their work. I'm looking for others who'd want to participate, I'm holding alot out of what's really goin on too, but that's because it's gunna be a HUGE surprise! Anyone see this same vision? If you wanna be a part of it, PM me and I'll let ya know what is really goin on and we'll get you involved.
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southark2
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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2007, 12:25:22 am » |
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I don't know, but I for one am tried of working by myself all the time. I got too many incomplete hacks because I am just one person. I'll pm you later don't worry I can keep secrets too. I got a lot of unknown hacks also that nobody knows about. I would like to start focusing on one project at a time for better progress and better hacks too.
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DarknessSavior
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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2007, 01:30:19 pm » |
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Are you talking about starting a romhacking group (as in a group of people who work on projects together)? I've wanted to do that for a while, but I hear that it's a bad idea (apparently there aren't enough similarly-minded romhackers that would work together well, or something. Everyone winds up fighting.). I'd be interested, though.
~DS
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southark2
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« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2007, 04:08:36 pm » |
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I don't about the other guy haven't heard back from him. I am definitely interested in some sort of a group of people who work on projects together. Even if someone else's project came first that wouldn't bother me in the least. As long as something gets done It would make us all look good. I could be happy with that.
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Gemini
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2007, 04:34:21 pm » |
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I hope it won't turn out like the Community project we had here some time ago. I was so disappointing having only one person (me in that case >_>) doing all the work and nobody else helping at all.
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KaioShin
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2007, 04:47:20 pm » |
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In a group you usually have several projects at once, everyone being worked on by individual persons with some help from the others here and there. So it's still the same as now actually, I don't get the point. However, I think Kojiro isn't talking about groups of old. It's much too vague to tell what he is talking about though
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DaMarsMan
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2007, 05:25:38 pm » |
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Well, I think a PSX game was a bad pick for a first community project. You're only of the only ones who is good with psx Gemini so that's why you ended up with all the work. Yeah we are talking about a group. If you're qualified PM kojiro and tell him why. Then he'll give you more details. We are not going to announce anything until we get at least some talented people involved.
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Gemini
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2007, 07:12:59 pm » |
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Well, I think a PSX game was a bad pick for a first community project. You're only of the only ones who is good with psx Gemini so that's why you ended up with all the work. I think the problem wasn't the console at all. It's was the people around the project, who didn't collaborate at all. If you're qualified PM kojiro and tell him why. Then he'll give you more details. I guess I'm qualified, but I'm really not interested anymore in any group project. Sorry, maybe next time.
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RedComet
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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2007, 07:27:48 pm » |
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Well, I think a PSX game was a bad pick for a first community project. You're only of the only ones who is good with psx Gemini so that's why you ended up with all the work. I think the problem wasn't the console at all. It's was the people around the project, who didn't collaborate at all. Except the people around the project with exception of maybe Klarth were completely clueless. How were people supposed to collaborate when they didn't know what the hell was going on? The fact that your explanations for most of what you did (what little you bothered to really explained) boiled down to "experience" didn't help things along either. I'm not blaming you or trying to start something, I'm just giving my opinion as to why I think the PSX wasn't the greatest console to use for a community project.
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southark2
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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2007, 08:19:42 pm » |
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Well, I think a PSX game was a bad pick for a first community project. You're only of the only ones who is good with psx Gemini so that's why you ended up with all the work. Yeah we are talking about a group. If you're qualified PM kojiro and tell him why. Then he'll give you more details. We are not going to announce anything until we get at least some talented people involved.
Yeah what he said. I feel the same way. I don't really know if I am talented enough or not tho. But I get better everyday and am a fast learner. I am sure I can fit in somewhere. I am a good bata tester too tho.
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Gemini
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« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2007, 08:46:12 pm » |
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How were people supposed to collaborate when they didn't know what the hell was going on? The fact that your explanations for most of what you did (what little you bothered to really explained) boiled down to "experience" didn't help things along either. People voted for a Psx project, not just me. Also, except for a few questions, Kaioshin working on the topics and somebody else creating a DAT decompressor, nobody seemed like interested in the project at all when the board was created. Experience has nothing to do with it, be sure of that. Also there was virtually nothing to explain since we only got through a simple archive format... What happened when I asked help for a font dumper? Nobody moved a finger. Yeah, that's really nice for a community project.
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Nightcrawler
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« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2007, 09:12:21 pm » |
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Gemini, do you hear yourself speaking? 'simple archive format' for example.. Half the people who were interested in the project don't even know what an archive format is. There's nothing 'simple' about it. You also wouldn't even release any source code to your utilities either if I recall correctly. What good is a utility that does something when the people involved trying ot learn have no idea how it does what it does or what even went into it's creation? I concur. Many people did not know what was going on with you and your work despite what you liked to believe. A few people have already spoken out to this and I expect taking poll would show the same. Face the facts man, it wasn't dumbed down enough. Also, you're assuming everyone involved had the ability to even help you with a font dumper. It was supposed to be a learning experience as much as anything and well, you didn't do a lot that lent itself to teaching. I think you, like a few others around here, just forget what it's like not to know things. It's a common over sight that hits a lot of people. One reason the community project failed is because it wasn't on a basic enough level which was IMPERATIVE for a PSX project which was reaching to begin with because countless people have no idea how to apply basic hacking principles platform wide. There just wasn't any teaching going on and there needed to be. And unfortunately, there wasn't many people involved with the project with PSX experience to even do the teaching. Let's not point fingers at Gemini though. Everyone who voted, voted for PSX despite the arguments and warnings that this exact thing would occur. There were limited experts in PSX available, and it was more complicated for everyone involved to get the basics down dealing with an ISO, understanding what do with the archive format to even get started and get involved. Honestly, did anybody else even make a real effort? You can probably count those who did on one hand. I suppose that's why the United States has the electoral college. Democracy doesn't work when everyone involved doesn't understand what they're really voting for. You need a mechanism in place to protect the people from the people! :laugh: Rather than a community project, what the community really needs is an open source step by step teaching of how to do a hacking project from start to finish showing how basic principles can apply to any platform and outlining the few things that may or may not be platform specific. There are just a lot of missing links for a lot of people on various skill levels. That would help solve that. Is that practical? I don't know. Who's going to do it? I don't know that either, but it certainly would be useful to a lot of people. After assisting new people for over a decade, I still see the same obstacles being hit by many.
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Gemini
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« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2007, 09:44:15 pm » |
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Gemini, do you hear yourself speaking? 'simple archive format' for example.. Half the people who were interested in the project don't even know what an archive format is. There's nothing 'simple' about it. There is a reason if I used the word "simple". It's just a set of pointers and sizes, which should be covered by the romhacker basics. IIRC, the point of the project wasn't teaching romhacking basics (they are always the same, whatever is the machine you are working on), but CD-based console mechanics. You also wouldn't even release any source code to your utilities either if I recall correctly. What good is a utility that does something when the people involved trying ot learn have no idea how it does what it does or what even went into it's creation? We discussed about that several times and the answer is always the same: specs for a format are everything you need. If somebody can't write a file dumper, how is he/she supposed to even understand a 20 line source? Paraphrasing what you said, how is people involved in the project supposed to learn when they have no idea what they are about to read? File specs are infinitely more useful than any small piece of source code. Anybody can understand them, even someone who has no idea of what a programming language is. Also, you're assuming everyone involved had the ability to even help you with a font dumper. It was supposed to be a learning experience as much as anything and well, you didn't do a lot that lent itself to teaching. You are probably right, but nobody said anything about that. I mean, we got something called feedback. No feedback=lack of interest. :/ One reason the community project failed is because it wasn't on a basic enough level which was IMPERATIVE for a PSX project which was reaching to begin with because countless people have no idea how to apply basic hacking principles platform wide. I'd add an IMO to this sentence. Some of us started with a Psx project, even when we knew NOTHING about romhacking. Just because it's not very common it doesn't mean it has to be uber difficult. I can tell you it's probably harder to work on a Snes rom than a Psx ISO. Anyway, I guess we are getting a bit away from the original topic.
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southark2
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« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2007, 01:00:42 am » |
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I don't know now after thinking about this sure I am willing to become a group, but a whole different community I am not so certain about. I am already a member of a community and it's called RHDN. So I reckon I am going to sit this one out and yet it pass me bye. Now if someone wants a singular group of ROM hackers that are willing to help each other out then I would still go for that. To many egg's in one group are not going to get far anyway to many different idea's. Besides I haven't heard back from the guy and I don't got time to waste when I can be working on my own hacks by myself.
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Numonohi_Boi
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« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2007, 04:12:24 am » |
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Well, I think a PSX game was a bad pick for a first community project. You're only of the only ones who is good with psx Gemini so that's why you ended up with all the work. I think the problem wasn't the console at all. It's was the people around the project, who didn't collaborate at all. Except the people around the project with exception of maybe Klarth were completely clueless. How were people supposed to collaborate when they didn't know what the hell was going on? The fact that your explanations for most of what you did (what little you bothered to really explained) boiled down to "experience" didn't help things along either. I'm not blaming you or trying to start something, I'm just giving my opinion as to why I think the PSX wasn't the greatest console to use for a community project. I think it was safe to say that there is always a little of both. I think with any project you must understand that in the end there often needs to be a lead designer but there could be a list of things that other people could do. Even in translation we see all the time that one guy hacks the game, another does the raw translation etc. you just have to break the hack into bits, and I think that in future hacks on later systems you are going to need teams to do everything, a guy or two to do texturing and maybe another two to do the core programming etc. I think everyone seems to be getting a little worked up over a past event though eh?
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