Author
|
Topic: Chrono Trigger Compression (Read 994 times)
|
DarknessSavior
Guest
|
 |
« on: February 14, 2007, 02:28:55 pm » |
|
Well, as I mentioned before, I'm going to try and retranslate Chrono Trigger. I need to try and get a script of this to Suzaku as well.
I was able to make a table containing the kana for the game easy enough, but there are TONs of Kanji in CT. I asked Niahak if he could help find out the hex values for the Kanji in the game, and that ran into another problem. The font is compressed. -.-
Can anyone help me out with this situation? Is there a way to figure out the hex values for the Kanji that doesn't involve trying to figure out their order in a tile editor? Or would the best idea be to uncompress the font tiles first? >.<
~DS
|
|
|
|
|
Aerdan
Guest
|
|
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2007, 03:02:05 pm » |
|
You should talk to ChrisRPG [over at RPGOne], really. Sky Render might know something, too. You can talk to Sky Render via #rpgone on Espernet, or you can email Chris. |
|
|
|
|
Tauwasser
Guest
|
|
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2007, 03:15:11 pm » |
|
|
|
|
|
|
HeXPLuS
Guest
|
|
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2007, 06:19:35 pm » |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gemini
Guest
|
|
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2007, 06:37:36 pm » |
|
Chrono Trigger doesn't use any compression for its font. It's just a 12x12 2bpp planar broke in 2 pieces (8x12+4x12). As for the Japanese table, I'm sure there is a complete one on Chrono Compendium's board among the retranslation FAQ.
|
|
|
|
|
DarknessSavior
Guest
|
|
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2007, 08:58:30 am » |
|
You should talk to ChrisRPG [over at RPGOne], really. Sky Render might know something, too. You can talk to Sky Render via #rpgone on Espernet, or you can email Chris. Hmm... if all else fails, I'll try to talk to Chris. Thanks for the idea. ^_^ Didn't know there was a document on the compression. Makes sense that the guy who wrote TF would have written that, though. Thanks again Tauwasser. ^_^ O.o I didn't know Chronotools existed. That could help me out in a BIG way (seeing as one of the features is LZ compression/decompression). Chrono Trigger doesn't use any compression for its font. It's just a 12x12 2bpp planar broke in 2 pieces (8x12+4x12). As for the Japanese table, I'm sure there is a complete one on Chrono Compendium's board among the retranslation FAQ.
Hmm. Still, is there a way I could figure the kanji out myself, without having to steal a completed table? Knowing how to do that would also help if I do any other Japanese games with Kanji in them (that aren't for the NES...>.<). ~DS |
|
|
|
|
Nightcrawler
Guest
|
|
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2007, 10:14:08 am » |
|
Chrono Trigger doesn't use any compression for its font. It's just a 12x12 2bpp planar broke in 2 pieces (8x12+4x12). As for the Japanese table, I'm sure there is a complete one on Chrono Compendium's board among the retranslation FAQ.
Hmm. Still, is there a way I could figure the kanji out myself, without having to steal a completed table? Knowing how to do that would also help if I do any other Japanese games with Kanji in them (that aren't for the NES...>.<). ~DS You'd need to a.) use a tile editor that can view a pattern like that. b.) Use FEIDIAN to dump the font c.) write your own little utility to extract it. a.) Can't think of one off the top o fmy head, but I think there is one. b.) availabel in our database c.) Pretty easy if you can use basic file input/output, binary operations, and understand bitplane font storage. |
|
|
|
|
DarknessSavior
Guest
|
|
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2007, 10:38:04 am » |
|
You'd need to a.) use a tile editor that can view a pattern like that. b.) Use FEIDIAN to dump the font c.) write your own little utility to extract it.
a.) Can't think of one off the top o fmy head, but I think there is one. b.) availabel in our database c.) Pretty easy if you can use basic file input/output, binary operations, and understand bitplane font storage.
Gotcha, *downloads FEIDIAN*. What tile editor can view a pattern like that? I think I've downloaded at least 5 different tile editors. Probably more. @C1) Ahh! I couldn't code my way out of a paper bag. >.< @C2) "Basic file input/output, binary operations"? What does that mean, in English? Understanding bitplane font storage? Hmm, I never really studied it. So I guess I really don't fully understand it, yet. ~DS |
|
|
|
|
RedComet
Guest
|
|
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2007, 11:06:11 am » |
|
@C2) "Basic file input/output, binary operations"? What does that mean, in English? Understanding bitplane font storage? Hmm, I never really studied it. So I guess I really don't fully understand it, yet.
He means basic file handling in a custom written program. Any language worth its salt provides a standard library with basic file i/o and has the ability to read/write the file on the smallest level (byte). |
|
|
|
|
DarknessSavior
Guest
|
|
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2007, 11:08:36 am » |
|
Argh, you're talking programming jargon, aren't you? That explains why it doesn't make sense to me.
Let it be known that I have absolutely NO programming experience whatsoever. HTML and CGI are more than enough for me.
~DS
|
|
|
|
|
Gemini
Guest
|
|
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2007, 01:19:22 pm » |
|
b.) Use FEIDIAN to dump the font For the third or forth time: FEIDIAN can't extract CT's font due to the odd bit configuration. >_< |
|
|
|
|
DarknessSavior
Guest
|
|
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2007, 02:27:42 pm » |
|
b.) Use FEIDIAN to dump the font For the third or forth time: FEIDIAN can't extract CT's font due to the odd bit configuration. >_< Argh. There goes that idea. -.- ~DS Edit: Ok, I figure'd out a few things about CT that I'd like to be clarified by someone who knows more about hacking than I: - Is it possible for a game that uses two fonts (in this case, one for the script and locations and such, one for items, techniques, etc...) to have the same table for both fonts? I found parts of the script (sans Kanji) using the table I made for the smaller font (items, etc...). - When I looked at the CT rom again, no, the font ISN'T compressed. That's just an assumption I made when I was much more newbish than I am now. It is stored in 2 bpp. However, it is stored in a weird fashion. See that here: http://www-personal.umd.umich.edu/~mbalbert/ctj2.jpg. And here: http://www-personal.umd.umich.edu/~mbalbert/ctj4.jpg. That gets especially confusing when there is a screen full of Kanji: http://www-personal.umd.umich.edu/~mbalbert/ctj5.jpg. Also, the smaller font is easier to read, and is one tile per kana. However, I don't think all the kana are there. Plus, the "S" (for "Select" in the Customize Controls Menu) isn't there. O.o Is there a reason for this? See that here: http://www-personal.umd.umich.edu/~mbalbert/ctj3.jpg. Can anyone help me figure this out? >.> ~DS |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 09:15:14 am by DarknessSavior »
|
|
|
|
Nightcrawler
Guest
|
|
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2007, 04:34:38 pm » |
|
Yes, a game can use multiple fonts.
Yes, they can share the same table, but don't have to.
Gemini has already explained the odd storage format of Chrono Triggers font. since Tile Molester and FIEDIAN don't view it properly, you'll need to most likely write your own utility to rip it to view it properly.
The smaller font will only contain the characters used. If the game uses small 8x8 kana that you don't see present there, they are probably stored elsewhere. I'd take a look at a savestate and see what will probably be the full 8x8 font there, although it's entirely possible, pieces are loaded on demand. I haven't worked with Chrono Trigger directly.
|
|
|
|
|
DarknessSavior
Guest
|
|
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2007, 08:43:06 am » |
|
Yes, a game can use multiple fonts.
Yes, they can share the same table, but don't have to.
Gemini has already explained the odd storage format of Chrono Triggers font. since Tile Molester and FIEDIAN don't view it properly, you'll need to most likely write your own utility to rip it to view it properly.
The smaller font will only contain the characters used. If the game uses small 8x8 kana that you don't see present there, they are probably stored elsewhere. I'd take a look at a savestate and see what will probably be the full 8x8 font there, although it's entirely possible, pieces are loaded on demand. I haven't worked with Chrono Trigger directly.
Cute, I don't understand programming for beans. I asked if a game can use multiple fonts? O.o I don't think I did. I think the question was "If a game USES two fonts, can they both have the same table values?". You answered that, though. That's kinda weird that they can. The reason I asked that was because when I was finding locations for the lists (items, equipment, techniques and such) I was finding what looked like portions of the script, sans Kanji. Especially when I found the kana for Crono's name a few times with punctuation and such. I doubt that'd be random coding. ~DS |
|
|
|
|
Spikeman
Guest
|
|
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2007, 06:13:43 pm » |
|
For the third or forth time: FEIDIAN can't extract CT's font due to the odd bit configuration. >_<
Do you think you could explain this a bit more? I'm interesting as to why, because I am thinking about attempting to code a replacement for FEIDIAN (that hopefully can deal with these kind of things). |
|
|
|
|
|
RHDN Forum Archive
