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Author Topic: Some General Questions on Rom Hacking / FF2  (Read 1 times)
dohclude
Guest
« on: July 11, 2008, 01:08:54 pm »

Okay, here's the deal. I have done some small hacking and hex editing here and there, but I am no means an expert. I am a big fan of the Final Fantasy series, and I have always wanted to play the entire series in order as they were originally released in Japan (not the crazy mixed up renamed sequels here in the US.) I've gotten the translated NES and SNES roms from ff1 all the way to ff6. My actual goal was to inject these translated roms into Wii VC wads so that I can load them up straight from my Wii's dashboard. I've successfully done so with FF1, FF3, FF4, FF5, and FF6, but I hit a wall with FF2. The Wii VC Emulator will not correctly render the battle menu for FF2, even on the un-translated version (in Japanese). The battle menu flashes on and off, displays garbage, and sometimes disappears altogether. I then tried to load up this particular game in some other emulators on other systems such as NesterJ on my PSP, and I get similar results with garbage all over the screen and such. Now I know that the game runs just fine on original NES hardware, so this leads me to believe that this is an emulation issue. Since the Wii only emulates a limited number of systems, my next idea involved using the SNES emu to run this particular game. My idea to do this was to do something to convert / hack the NES rom into a SNES rom. Now I have no idea how I would go about doing this being an ametuer, but I am fairly certain that it is possible due to all of the "A&E NES HACKS" I have seen that allow NES games in SNES roms, ex. Dough Boy, Elevator Action, Mappy, Circus Charlie, etc.

My question is this: Is it possible for me to get a NES rom into a WORKING SNES format so that I might be able to then inject that SNES rom into a Wii VC title? If not, might there be some other way for me to make the battle menu's stop screwing up so that the game will be playable on various emulators?
MathOnNapkins
Guest
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2008, 01:35:04 pm »

That's going to be a lot of work just to do something with the Wii emulator that you can do with practically any other emulator on a PC >_>.

Not to mention, you can run other emulators on the Wii besides the VC's, iirc.

Is this possible? Yes. Would it be worth it? Probably not.

Btw: Have you considered that perhaps you have a bad dump / corrupted rom?
GenoBlast
Guest
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2008, 01:50:37 pm »

Quote from: dohclude on July 11, 2008, 01:08:54 pm
The Wii VC Emulator will not correctly render the battle menu for FF2, even on the un-translated version (in Japanese). The battle menu flashes on and off, displays garbage, and sometimes disappears altogether. I then tried to load up this particular game in some other emulators on other systems such as NesterJ on my PSP, and I get similar results with garbage all over the screen and such.

If it doesn't work on any emulators, it's probably a bad rom.

Quote from: dohclude on July 11, 2008, 01:08:54 pm
Now I know that the game runs just fine on original NES hardware, so this leads me to believe that this is an emulation issue.

The game, or the actual rom you're using?

Quote from: dohclude on July 11, 2008, 01:08:54 pm
Since the Wii only emulates a limited number of systems, my next idea involved using the SNES emu to run this particular game. My idea to do this was to do something to convert / hack the NES rom into a SNES rom.

Terrible idea. No offense, but you'll just give yourself a headache. It's probably possible, but you will never do it. Just trust me on this one.
dohclude
Guest
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2008, 02:57:18 pm »

I understand that it will be a lot of work, but I wouldn't mind that so much as it would be a valuable learning experience. I've tried several different FF2 roms, from every source I could think of, they all do the exact same thing so I'm pretty sure it's not a bad dump. Try to run any FF2 rom in NesterJ on your PSP and you will see what I mean. I haven't tried it with a PC emulator yet, but even if it works perfectly on my PC my goal was to have them all on my wii in the living room and have them all listed neatly on the Wii dashboard. I guess what I am looking for is any documentation for how the A&E NES hacks were made so that I might be able to do something similar, or possibly to inject the FF2 rom into one of the previous A&E Hacks (if that would in fact be possible.) I just don't know that much on that particular subject yet, and I haven't been able to track down any docs for that type of thing so far.
MathOnNapkins
Guest
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2008, 03:09:29 pm »

I don't think you understand how much work it would be. I really doubt it.

I googled for A&E NES hacks and couldn't find jackshit. So... my guess is that they are either pirate works or based off of leaked source code from a game company. The notion that you could just inject FF2 into some other rom or "shell" rom is pretty far fetched. It's extremely unlikely that would even produce a playable rom, let alone work 100%. What it really boils down to is knowing enough about the NES and the SNES hardware to know what has to be changed in the game code. And you could be talking a lot of changes. If you really have your heart set on this you need to start reading and realize you probably wouldn't finish it anytime soon.
dohclude
Guest
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2008, 03:18:47 pm »

well, it seems to run alright on the fceu nes emulator so that will have to be good enough for now I guess. I appreciate your info, if you could point me in the right direction to some kind of documentation where I could get started on learning some of this kind of stuff i'd appreciate it also.
GenoBlast
Guest
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2008, 03:36:41 pm »

My rom seems to run fine on NesterJ. I tried the squeaky-clean Japanese rom (Final Fantasy II (J).nes). Of course, that doesn't mean it will work on a Wii, but you still might want to try out the right rom.

If it still doesn't work, there's a Final Fantasy I+II rom for NES. It'd probably be a hell of a lot easier to hack in the FF2 translation than it would be to rewrite the game for SNES. Edit: Actually, it's already been done. http://www.romhacking.net/trans/138/

Quote from: dohclude on July 11, 2008, 03:18:47 pm
I appreciate your info, if you could point me in the right direction to some kind of documentation where I could get started on learning some of this kind of stuff i'd appreciate it also.
The Newbie Package of REQUIRED Material

ROMHacking.net FAQ: You ask, we answer!
ROMHacking.net Getting Started Section: Newbies Go HERE!
ROMHacking.net Documents Section!
How to ask questions the smart way.
On the Essence of ROM Hacking
KingMike
Guest
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2008, 03:39:32 pm »

Quote from: MathOnNapkins on July 11, 2008, 03:09:29 pm
I don't think you understand how much work it would be. I really doubt it.

I googled for A&E NES hacks and couldn't find jackshit. So... my guess is that they are either pirate works or based off of leaked source code from a game company. The notion that you could just inject FF2 into some other rom or "shell" rom is pretty far fetched. It's extremely unlikely that would even produce a playable rom, let alone work 100%. What it really boils down to is knowing enough about the NES and the SNES hardware to know what has to be changed in the game code. And you could be talking a lot of changes. If you really have your heart set on this you need to start reading and realize you probably wouldn't finish it anytime soon.

Those are hacks of only real early games and without sound.
So, it sounds like graphics-related stuff was the only part hacked (which is probably the easiest part. Still would require significant effort, but I imagine bankswapping and sound would be harder to port).
The CPU itself and controller input I believe are backward-compatible.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2008, 03:47:28 pm by KingMike »
dohclude
Guest
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2008, 06:42:21 pm »

Really? Are you using the version of NesterJ with Rewind? I think it's 1.11. I also tried injecting the Final Fantasy I+II rom and FF1 ran fine, but I got the same garbage on FF2. This is really weird if nobody else get's the same results as me. Well, thanks for the reading material links, I'll bookmark them.


Quote from: Killa B on July 11, 2008, 03:36:41 pm
My rom seems to run fine on NesterJ. I tried the squeaky-clean Japanese rom (Final Fantasy II (J).nes). Of course, that doesn't mean it will work on a Wii, but you still might want to try out the right rom.

If it still doesn't work, there's a Final Fantasy I+II rom for NES. It'd probably be a hell of a lot easier to hack in the FF2 translation than it would be to rewrite the game for SNES. Edit: Actually, it's already been done. http://www.romhacking.net/trans/138/

Quote from: dohclude on July 11, 2008, 03:18:47 pm
I appreciate your info, if you could point me in the right direction to some kind of documentation where I could get started on learning some of this kind of stuff i'd appreciate it also.
The Newbie Package of REQUIRED Material

ROMHacking.net FAQ: You ask, we answer!
ROMHacking.net Getting Started Section: Newbies Go HERE!
ROMHacking.net Documents Section!
How to ask questions the smart way.
On the Essence of ROM Hacking
GenoBlast
Guest
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2008, 07:20:21 pm »

I use the NesterJ build with Rewind and Mirror. I didn't even think of that, we probably have different versions. Wink

If FFI+II doesn't work, either, then my only advice is that FF2 sucks anyway.
tc
Guest
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2008, 07:46:20 pm »

The VC emulator is pretty bad when you think about its severe lack of features. Especially having no controller pak or Super FX.
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