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Topic: Importing SMB3 Koopaling sprites in SMB1 to replace Bowser sprite (Read 2 times)
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willj16
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« on: October 01, 2009, 10:54:50 pm » |
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Is it possible to import SMB3 Koopaling sprites into SMB1? Using Tile Layer Pro, I discovered the pixel dimensions of the sprites were 24x32 pixels compared to the 32x32 of Bowser. SMB1 Bowser is in this format: (O = unused/clear; # = Bowser tile) O O # # # # # # # # # O # # O O The O tiles are not used because the # tiles form an irregular shape. But with the SMB3 Koopaling tiles (for use in SMB1): Examples: O # # # # O # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # The first exhibit represents Larry. The second one represents Morton, Roy, and Lemmy. The third one represents Wendy, Iggy, and Ludwig. I have a photo to prove it  Because Wendy's bracelet is incomplete, assume the two blank tiles to the left the other half of her bracelet. The problem is that Bowser is bigger and is 32x32. So technically, is it possible to make Bowser a full 32x32 sprite (all 16 tiles are used unlike the original)? Because of that, I can make the Koopalings for the other 7 worlds. In my previous post regarding the Koopalings in SMB1, the sprites were proportionally inaccurate due to the limitations editing Bowser. I saw in the Excite Mario Bros hack that SMB3 Bowser was used and the castle used SMB3 fortress blocks and it even had windows! But SMB3-like Bowser was the same exact dimensions as of the original. But to make Bowser a 32x32 pixel sprite, is it possible that I add more tiles? That way, the new dimensions will allow me to make the SMB3 Koopalings. Regarding animation, could I just duplicate The 32x32 sprite (assuming I successfully make one) so that the Koopaling or Bowser will have a second animation frame? Including secondary animation frames, I should have a total of 16 Bowser sprites. Here's the link to my other post about the Koopalings in SMB1: http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,8574.0.htmlHere's the YouTube link to the SMB1 Excite hack: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCm3IFHS9CI |
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« Last Edit: October 01, 2009, 11:06:52 pm by willj168 »
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Dr. Floppy
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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2009, 12:42:04 am » |
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Everything you're talking about *is* technically possible, but you may have to give up some other sprite tiles from the game to pull it off. I'm pretty sure SMB1 Bowser is expandable to 32x32; SMB1 is pretty friendly in this regard. I forget whether the unused titles are programed as $24 blanks, or if they're simply omitted from the grid altogether? Either way, it's still doable (but you'll definitely want to pray for the former). You'll almost certainly have to expand the ROM and put in some bank switching to get all seven of the Koopalings in graphics-wise. This is a major task for a beginner, but it *is* doable. How bad do you want this hack to exist, and how much time are you willing to devote towards making it happen? (Correct answers below.) The good news is that once you master ROM expansion / bank swapping, you probably won't have much trouble figuring out other ROM hacking concepts and procedures. |
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willj16
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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2009, 11:47:01 am » |
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Speaking of ROM expansion, was the SMB1 Excite Bros hack a result of rom expansion and bank switching? Because I noticed the cool BG effects on the overworld and in the castle. It even had cool palettes as well as Samus, Kirby, and Pikachu sprites. I should have mentioned another SMB1 hack where the lava and water were animated. That hack was Extra Mario Bros.
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frantik
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« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2009, 03:34:21 pm » |
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I'm pretty sure SMB1 Bowser is expandable to 32x32; SMB1 is pretty friendly in this regard. I forget whether the unused titles are programed as $24 blanks, or if they're simply omitted from the grid altogether? Either way, it's still doable (but you'll definitely want to pray for the former).
The SMB engine only supports enemies made up of 3x2 tiles (3 tiles tall by 2 wide). Bowser it actually two enemy sprites with one half move up a tile. It's not very simple at all to change Bowser from being made up of two parts of 3x2.. you could easily make him 3 tiles by 4 tiles or 6x2, but not 4 by 4 plus you would also need more graphics.. there are none available so you would have to sacrifice some other enemy or reuse tiles |
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willj16
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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2009, 03:39:52 pm » |
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3x4 seems like a good idea because I can draw the SMB3 Koopaling sprites. I planning to import the Kooplings in my next SMB1 hack.
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frantik
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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2009, 03:42:31 pm » |
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bowser can easily be 3 tiles tall by 4 wide, or 6 tiles tall by 2 wide. but not 3 tiles wide by 4 tall, which is how the koopalings are.
basically, you can make short fat monsters, or tall skinny ones, or have the two parts offset by some other amount, but changing the 2 blocks of 3 tall by 2 wide is difficult
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Hamtaro126
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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2009, 05:44:09 pm » |
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Or use 8x16 sprites, That is what I am doing.
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Dr. Floppy
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« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2009, 08:33:11 pm » |
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The SMB engine only supports enemies made up of 3x2 tiles (3 tiles tall by 2 wide). Bowser it actually two enemy sprites with one half move up a tile. It's not very simple at all to change Bowser from being made up of two parts of 3x2.. you could easily make him 3 tiles by 4 tiles or 6x2, but not 4 by 4
What if he shifted the upper "half" of the current Bowser layout one tile rightward, creating a two-tile overlap with the lower "half"? XX XX XXYY ---> XZY XXYY XZY YY YY This would create a pseudo-3x4 layout with two missing corners. (A skilled artist could probably design around those corners.) It would also allow for the composite "Bowser" to utilize more than three colors. Again, depending upon the creativity of the designer, that could come out really nice. plus you would also need more graphics.. there are none available so you would have to sacrifice some other enemy or reuse tiles. Yeah, the bank-switching is pretty much a given. I'd suggest creating a universal tile template (i.e. $D0 is always the upper-leftmost part of the head, $D1 is always the chin, etc.) around which the seven Koopalings would be designed. That way, the game always loads the same graphical tile layout; what those tiles are and which Koopaling gets created is solely dependent upon whatever graphics bank is loaded at the time. |
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frantik
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« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2009, 10:47:32 pm » |
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yeah that would probably work, though i'm not sure how the overlapping bits would look. you'd have to do some creative graphics work too cause you'd still only have 2 tiles for the feet
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willj16
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« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2009, 11:15:14 pm » |
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Or use 8x16 sprites, That is what I am doing.
Would the SMB3 Koopalings and Bowser fit those dimensions? If so, I may stick to your suggestion |
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frantik
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« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2009, 11:54:20 pm » |
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doing what hamtaro says is not very easy at all. he probably is using the source code and rewriting parts of the engine, and then re assebling the code into a new rom. as opposed to just editing a few values in the existing rom
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willj16
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« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2009, 02:20:09 pm » |
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The SMB engine only supports enemies made up of 3x2 tiles (3 tiles tall by 2 wide). Bowser it actually two enemy sprites with one half move up a tile. It's not very simple at all to change Bowser from being made up of two parts of 3x2.. you could easily make him 3 tiles by 4 tiles or 6x2, but not 4 by 4
What if he shifted the upper "half" of the current Bowser layout one tile rightward, creating a two-tile overlap with the lower "half"? XX XX XXYY ---> XZY XXYY XZY YY YY This would create a pseudo-3x4 layout with two missing corners. (A skilled artist could probably design around those corners.) It would also allow for the composite "Bowser" to utilize more than three colors. Again, depending upon the creativity of the designer, that could come out really nice. plus you would also need more graphics.. there are none available so you would have to sacrifice some other enemy or reuse tiles. Yeah, the bank-switching is pretty much a given. I'd suggest creating a universal tile template (i.e. $D0 is always the upper-leftmost part of the head, $D1 is always the chin, etc.) around which the seven Koopalings would be designed. That way, the game always loads the same graphical tile layout; what those tiles are and which Koopaling gets created is solely dependent upon whatever graphics bank is loaded at the time. What you said about the unused tiles, they were omitted from the grid. But could I sacrifice some unwanted tiles to make Bowser 4x4? If that method is possible, I can do that AND make the Koopaling sprites. Because if I use just blanks, editing them will ruin other graphics that use blanks. |
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Hamtaro126
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« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2009, 05:47:28 pm » |
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doing what hamtaro says is not very easy at all. he probably is using the source code and rewriting parts of the engine, and then re assebling the code into a new rom. as opposed to just editing a few values in the existing rom
the source code is how I made the UxROM version of SMB1, the mapper I am using is MMC5 (Mapper #5), There is an extra CHR bank for sprites that use 8x16, Besides that, You have to live with the limit. |
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« Last Edit: October 03, 2009, 06:44:37 pm by Hamtaro126 »
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frantik
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« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2009, 06:40:25 pm » |
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i was just letting the OP know that it's not as simple as just deciding to use a different sprite size :woot!:
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« Last Edit: October 03, 2009, 07:13:09 pm by frantik »
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willj16
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« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2009, 09:04:35 pm » |
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I have done it! I have an SMB1 version of Larry Koopa. I was able to work within the limits of making the graphics. Of course, I'll keep this post in mind. The first pic shows the animation frames  I'm working on a series of hacks now and this is what he looks like in the game:  |
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« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 01:09:57 pm by willj168 »
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